The Official Southern State Secession Thread

[Paul Brevard 0]

Holy shit, you're practically still in diapers! Did you know that "the upside down 5 pointed star" is the symbol of the Eastern Star, the female associates of the Masons? I'm sure you did, cause you apparently read a lot. But like I said, I'll drop the Mason discussion because I'm certain that would cause a whole nother Civil war. LOL

Are you a Mason?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Are you a Mason?

She's a woman, so I'm guessing no.

[Paul Brevard 0]

She's a woman, so I'm guessing no.

That's right. I do appologize. Are you an Eastern Star?Thanks D.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

That's right. I do appologize. Are you an Eastern Star?Thanks D.

The thing she was quoting was from some wikipedia page, the Star of David page, I assume. I'm going to go on a limb, and guess she's not affiliated with the masons, based on her relecutance to talk about them, and her wiliness to quote something that is clearly a Mason-slander book.

[Paul Brevard 0]

The thing she was quoting was from some wikipedia page, the Star of David page, I assume. I'm going to go on a limb, and guess she's not affiliated with the masons, based on her relecutance to talk about them, and her wiliness to quote something that is clearly a Mason-slander book.

If she's not, with all due respect, she needs to stick to something that she knows about.I have read books on King, Carver, and even Obama's. Just because I read about them doesn't mean that I know what it means to be black.Her facts are shy and being from the South, even I can see the reasoning behind people seeing the flag as racist. I do not believe it to be in all cases, but it can stir unwanted debate and draw feelings up from people that never felt what it truly meant to be on either side of the flag in that period.As far as the original post, I hear people everyday say that they want to secede. I believe we should give him a chance to show either brilliance or ignorance under the constitution that he will swear to preserve, protect and defend. Then we will know if he have reason to secede or celebrate. Good luck with this debate.

[20TN40 0]

The thing she was quoting was from some wikipedia page, the Star of David page, I assume. I'm going to go on a limb, and guess she's not affiliated with the masons, based on her relecutance to talk about them, and her wiliness to quote something that is clearly a Mason-slander book.

I pulled that from Wiki since it was the easiest to quote and really paid no attention to the citations. I have no problem talking about either the Eastern Star or the Masons but I figured that stating that the majority of my family was involved in both would just cause another discussion about my racism since a good majority of folks consider them to be just another white supremecy group.

[20TN40 0]

If she's not, with all due respect, she needs to stick to something that she knows about.I have read books on King, Carver, and even Obama's. Just because I read about them doesn't mean that I know what it means to be black.Her facts are shy and being from the South, even I can see the reasoning behind people seeing the flag as racist. I do not believe it to be in all cases, but it can stir unwanted debate and draw feelings up from people that never felt what it truly meant to be on either side of the flag in that period.As far as the original post, I hear people everyday say that they want to secede. I believe we should give him a chance to show either brilliance or ignorance under the constitution that he will swear to preserve, protect and defend. Then we will know if he have reason to secede or celebrate. Good luck with this debate.

Okay, I been hanging out over here all night cause I just know that if I venture into Gen Po, someone will tell me who won the WSOP and I'm still trying to wait until the broadcast tomorrow to watch for myself.Not sure which subject it is that you think I know nothing about but I do have some extensive education on being from the South, the Confederate flag, the Masons and the Eastern Star. Not an expert, but enough knowledge to talk about it. I won't bore you with the details but I have done extensive research on both sides of my family and know that they both fought for the South. I also know that my (several times Great-) grandfather fought in the Revolutionary War. A good part of my fathers ancestors were killed because they wouldn't fight for either side and just wanted to be left alone at Shelton Laurel but they were slaughtered. Just played my first game of Badugi and cashed..........maybe a new hobby? lol

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I pulled that from Wiki since it was the easiest to quote and really paid no attention to the citations. I have no problem talking about either the Eastern Star or the Masons but I figured that stating that the majority of my family was involved in both would just cause another discussion about my racism since a good majority of folks consider them to be just another white supremecy group.

Well, the masons aren't exactly one of the most integrated groups, if that's what you mean,I don't believe the Scottish rite allows black members ( at least that's what my dad (a 33 degree scottish rite mason) said one time) I don't know if there are black masons, but I sure have never met one. I don't believe it is a "white supremist" group, in the sense that it's rituals and traditions are ones that support the idea that whites are the master race or anything, it's not an overtly racist group. But it's also, at it's core, one of a number of fraternal organizations in this country that are made up primarily, or completely of white people, by design or circumstance, and I have very little interest in joining any fraternal organization of that kind, Elk, Mason or Sigma Chi. Maybe when I become an old white man myself, it will have more appeal

[20TN40 0]

Well, the masons aren't exactly one of the most integrated groups, if that's what you mean,I don't believe the Scottish rite allows black members ( at least that's what my dad (a 33 degree scottish rite mason) said one time) I don't know if there are black masons, but I sure have never met one. I don't believe it is a "white supremist" group, in the sense that it's rituals and traditions are ones that support the idea that whites are the master race or anything, it's not an overtly racist group. But it's also, at it's core, one of a number of fraternal organizations in this country that are made up primarily, or completely of white people, by design or circumstance, and I have very little interest in joining any fraternal organization of that kind, Elk, Mason or Sigma Chi. Maybe when I become an old white man myself, it will have more appeal

I have never asked but I always figured that since most Masonic halls tend to the local members, possibly there are Masonic halls that are in predominately black communities. I don't know. But I do know that even locally, because their halls have covered windows and they don't discuss the goings on inside the halls, people are very suspicious of what they're doing in there. One thing I do know for fact......my father was a Mason and he died when I was 10. I was told at that time that if my Mother, myself or my sister ever needed anything, all we had to do was find a Mason and it would be taken care of. That part is entirely true. I also know that no matter where I am, in this country or abroad, if I have trouble all I have to do is find a Masonic hall. I will be taken care of.Nite, nite D.........I gotta shut it down for a while!

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I have never asked but I always figured that since most Masonic halls tend to the local members, possibly there are Masonic halls that are in predominately black communities. I don't know. But I do know that even locally, because their halls have covered windows and they don't discuss the goings on inside the halls, people are very suspicious of what they're doing in there. One thing I do know for fact......my father was a Mason and he died when I was 10. I was told at that time that if my Mother, myself or my sister ever needed anything, all we had to do was find a Mason and it would be taken care of. That part is entirely true. I also know that no matter where I am, in this country or abroad, if I have trouble all I have to do is find a Masonic hall. I will be taken care of.Nite, nite D.........I gotta shut it down for a while!

My dad mentioned one time, that he was in a pawn shop of a guy he kinda knew, shooting the sht and browsing goods, when a black guy came in, with a scottish rite ring, and pawned it. My dad said he told the pawn broker that was 100 percent stolen, as blacks can't be in the Scottish rite( he said that blacks have their own rite, I'm not sure what he said it was) but the pawn broker didn't care, so my dad never went in there again. All masons are at least 3 degree masons, but after that they join rites, and, from what my dad said, the scottish is at least segregated. And thus, has little interest to me.

[Nimue1995 1]

Okay, I been hanging out over here all night cause I just know that if I venture into Gen Po, someone will tell me who won the WSOP and I'm still trying to wait until the broadcast tomorrow to watch for myself.

Stay off Yahoo then too since they just had it in their news at the top of the page.

[vbnautilus 48]

One day VB, you and I must sit down with some drinks of choice and have long drawn out conversations about everything! I absolutely adore you!

Okay, so I'm an old curmudgeon (but so is BigD!) and I refuse to submit to all the new meanings for stuff. I vow from this day forward to think Hindu any time I see a swasticka. And there is also something derogatory (I think witchcraft) that is associated with the Star of David, but I still think Israel when I see it. For years when I played softball, I rolled up my shirtsleeves until I essentially had a sleeveless jersey. Did you know that that is now some sort of universal signal that you are gay? Remember when a guy pierced his ear and right was gay, left was straight? And now we hardly give that a thought.I've never used the n word and I've never been called a cracker. All I can say is that my reality does not fit with BigD's perception.

My biggest peeve when it comes to the co-opting of symbols is the rainbow. The rainbow used to be a magical symbol of the wonder of nature, and nowadays if I paint a rainbow on my car I'm soliciting gay sex.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

My biggest peeve when it comes to the co-opting of symbols is the rainbow. The rainbow used to be a magical symbol of the wonder of nature, and nowadays if I paint a rainbow on my car I'm soliciting gay sex.

I don't see what the issue is here/

[vbnautilus 48]

I don't see what the issue is here/

Obviously I'm trying to pick up little kids, not men.

[Paul Brevard 0]

Blacks have their own halls.They are called Prince Halls.In Texas, we have black masons in our lodges. As far as the civil war, I have several relatives that fought in the Civil War. Most notible is Theodore Washington Brevard, the last confederate general. My g-g-g-grandfather was Alexander Brevard and he was a Col. that fought along side George Washington. He had six brothers that were all officers. My mothers relative was General Davidson. Davidson college is named after him. We are rich in Southern Heritage and believe me, there are some black people that carry the flag but it is still seen as a racist symbol if you place it in your yard. I do know the true reason for the war and believe we had the right to secede. That doesn't change the fact that blacks see it as a racist symbol and it causes more problems if you fly it in your yard. It's kinda like shouting to the world that "I am a rebel and the war is not over!"I will say this. I have seen the flag fly in a little Louisiana Confederate cemetary outside of Mansfield and no one bothers it or says a thing about it. It is seen there and at the Mansfield battlefield as a historic symbol. There is a difference. I do not see the Masons as a racist organization. Warren G. Harding in 1921, Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1953; Jimmy Carter in 1977 and George H.W. Bush in 1989 used George Washington's Masonic bible. Sad thing is, they tried to kill Mason's off and many do not know that there was an Anti-Mason movement where they killed thousands of Masons in the 1800's and even had an Anit-Mason party to run for President.Anyway, enough of that. Instead of talking treason, we should be talking about taking this country back to it's original conservative view. We should give the powers back to the states like the Constitution instructs us to do. We are not Americans anymore. We're either left or right. If there was a center, McCain and Obama would have had a 50/50 voting record. HA! Until we stop allowing our representatives to run our Education, Healthcare, Welfare and all the rest of the things they have misused the General Welfare statement of our Constitution for, then we will be slaves to the government. They have no place in any of those things. Those are state rights and now they are buying freaking COMPANIES!!! No one has to take responsibility for their actions anymore. We'll pay for them to live a house they can't afford with our tax money. We'll allow them to live off welfare their entire lives. We will bail out their business if they run it like irresponsible children. We will take a trillion dollars to save a market that needs to correct itself. If they have that kind of money to waste, they are taxing us way too much. It wasn't meant to be a business. It was meant to be a government. We shouldn't secede, we should be running for local, and State government offices and take back our State rights. God, I love this country!

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I do not see the Masons as a racist organization. Warren G. Harding in 1921, Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1953; Jimmy Carter in 1977 and George H.W. Bush in 1989 used George Washington's Masonic bible. Sad thing is, they tried to kill Mason's off and many do not know that there was an Anti-Mason movement where they killed thousands of Masons in the 1800's and even had an Anit-Mason party to run for President.

Oh, I wasn't trying to say that it was, I'm just saying that I don't, in general, enjoy the company of a bunch of conservative old white men, which is why I've never followed my father ( to his disappointment, I'm sure) into the Masons. I have nothing wrong with the organization, I just am not big into fraternal orders of any kind.

[Fphillips 0]

And I can google several images of chicks blowing donkeys, it doesn't mean it's typical behavior.

Thanks asshole.....I just shot coffee out my nose.

[Mercury69 3]

Obviously I'm trying to pick up little kids, not men.

That's almost as bad as saying you drink Coors

[Southern Buddhist 1]

I'm with BigD. Except for six years in New Jersey, I'm a lifelong southerner. But I know darn well that the rebel flag is associated with racists. That doesn't mean that every last person sporting it is a racist, but it means that the likelihood of them being one is real. It also means that they don't mind being associated with a specific time frame in which black people were property, to be sold, raped, or beaten to death without punishment. I mind, so I don't sport the flag.If all you want to do is proclaim pride in being a Southerner, then by all means sew a flag featuring a big plate of chicken and dumplings and a glass of sweet tea and fly it proudly. Nobody would think the worse of you at all. But if you're going to fly the rebel flag, you might as well get used to the idea that you cannot dictate its meaning to others, and they will make certain assumptions about you. Freedom means that you can fly it (ironic since it was flown to leave this free country, and freedom was not a big part of the CSA's philosophy), but freedom also means that I can interpret your flying it as saying something negative about your character. I can't stop you from flying it, but you can't order me to interpret it in your minority way, as a black-folk-adoring sign of history.The picture of a black guy flying it, by the way, is almost certainly a picture from a re-enactment. Look at the way they're dressed. Re-enacting is a hobby down here, and it says very little about what that guy thinks of the flag. In fact, the only time I'm NOT mildly irked by people with flag stickers on their cars are the ones that have the flag with the word "re-enactor" superimposed on it. That's probably a conscious defense on their part, specifically so people don't say, "Oh, look, a bigot." [And by the way, there are probably more pictures on Google of Klan members in sheets flying that flag than of black guys flying it.]But what gets me is that everyone thinks Southerners are obsessed with the Civil War. When I moved up North, people would here my accent and almost immediately bring up the war, like "oh, you lost, y'know," or some other comment. I don't give a rat's ass about the Civil War. I find it absolutely the most god-awful boring period of history ever. I would rather read about Millard F*cking Fillmore than the Civil War.Seriously, the European history of the South began in 1607 when the Jamestown colony was founded in Virginia. As of last year, that's 400 years of history. The Civil War was four years. To pretend that 1% of our history is the end-all and be-all and best thing ever is moronic to me. Virginia was the home of eight US presidents, but does anybody care? No, it didn't happen during the Civil War. The worst natural disaster on US soil was the New Madrid earthquake of 1820 that devastated Missouri and points south and was so powerful it caused the Mississippi River to reverse its flow for a period of time. But are archaeologists researching it? No, they're too busy digging up Civil War buttons. Worse yet, let's talk about one of the greatest, bravest, smartest, most courageous people ever to have lived -- Martin Luther King, Jr. He was a native Southerner, but that gets forgotten in the rush to limit Southern history to the stupid Civil War. Maybe if we didn't think that way, HE would be remembered as one of the most shining examples of Southern history.The states' rights argument is a fig leaf. The CSA wanted all the trade agreements between states left in place after they stopped being states. They wanted railroads and factories to build in the South even though they were US companies. They wanted to rely on US treaties abroad as a basis for negotiating with other countries. The only right they were concerned about was the right to own slaves. In all other ways they wanted all the benefits of being in the US.I do understand loving the South. I will always think the Blue Ridge mountains are the prettiest landscape in the world. I love the way people here say hello to strangers (of all colors nowadays), I love sweet tea and blackberry cobbler and waving at cars when they go by because it only happens every couple of hours. I love the outlaw working class entertainment that started with running moonshine and became NASCAR. I love the relaxed pace of life and the fact that most people realize down here that money isn't the only thing that matters. I love family reunions. But I don't love the rebel flag, because whatever OTHER history you want to imbue it with, including all that I just mentioned, there is no way to subtract from it the simple fact that it has been used as a symbol of racism and is still used that way today. It doesn't commemorate all that I love about the South, it undermines and soils all that I love.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

But what gets me is that everyone thinks Southerners are obsessed with the War of Northern Aggression. When I moved up North, people would here my accent and almost immediately bring up the war, like "oh, you lost, y'know," or some other comment. I don't give a rat's ass about the War of Northern Aggression. I find it absolutely the most god-awful boring period of history ever. I would rather read about Millard F*cking Fillmore than the War of Northern Aggression.

FYP

[Southern Buddhist 1]

FYP

Damn Yankee.

[Freddec 0]

southern born and southern bred and when i die i'm southern deadi'm not a racist there

[Southern Buddhist 1]

southern born and southern bred and when i die i'm southern deadi'm not a racist there

Nobody said you were (although I know to my chagrin that some outsiders will think it). That's why my screen name is what it is, and it's one I use in several places on the web. I want people to know that yes, I'm a Southerner, and no, I'm not what they think I am. I want them to think, even just for a second, that maybe Southerners cover the political, religious, and social spectrum, too, just like everybody else.But the issue is whether or not it is legitimate to think that generally the rebel flag signifies bigotry, or whether it has generally been used for white political purposes. I think the proper way to see it is the same way John Stuart Mill saw conservatives:"Conservative people are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives."In other words, not everyone who flies the rebel flag is a racist, but nearly all racists fly the rebel flag.