85suited 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 another nuanced speech from Obama, giving him the ability to redefine later at a time of his choosing Link to post Share on other sites
AmScray 355 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 This is one area where I make big philosophical exception from the ®'s and the Libertarians.Domestic works projects are critical to the progress of a nation. Also, in a nation such as ours, with interests and variables as dynamic as they are, I'd bet it's a helluva lot cheaper to give some kid a few bucks for college in exchange for a year of service than it is to assign well paid and benefited municipal employees to complete those same tasks. This also has ancillary benefits, chiefly in that it allows people to serve their country in exchange for college money in a role that is non martial.In my year in NCCC, we did everything from tutoring and mentoring at-risk kids to clearing trails for hunters to working disaster relief for Red Cross to building Habitat houses. If anyone wants horror stories about inefficiency, waste (with Red Cross) and abstract commentary on the sort of person who is prone to joining Americorps NCCC (the predicate model for "hard core" civilian service), as someone who has BTDT, I promise I can get far more vicious about Americorps than any dogmatist who disagrees with programs like this- driven by idealism alone. With that said, it is a huge net positive and I support it 100%. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the "free markets" are awfully inconsiderate of certain things that may not spark mans desire to profit, but that are necessary for a well functioning society, or, that address needs that speak directly to our soul as a nation. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 This is one area where I make big philosophical exception from the ®'s and the Libertarians.Domestic works projects are critical to the progress of a nation. Also, in a nation such as ours, with interests and variables as dynamic as they are, I'd bet it's a helluva lot cheaper to give some kid a few bucks for college in exchange for a year of service than it is to assign well paid and benefited municipal employees to complete those same tasks. This also has ancillary benefits, chiefly in that it allows people to serve their country in exchange for college money in a role that is non martial.In my year in NCCC, we did everything from tutoring and mentoring at-risk kids to clearing trails for hunters to working disaster relief for Red Cross to building Habitat houses. If anyone wants horror stories about inefficiency, waste (with Red Cross) and abstract commentary on the sort of person who is prone to joining Americorps NCCC (the predicate model for "hard core" civilian service), as someone who has BTDT, I promise I can get far more vicious about Americorps than any dogmatist who disagrees with programs like this- driven by idealism alone. With that said, it is a huge net positive and I support it 100%. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the "free markets" are awfully inconsiderate of certain things that may not spark mans desire to profit, but that are necessary for a well functioning society, or, that address needs that speak directly to our soul as a nation.Commie Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Way to start an alarmist thread over what is likely nothing at all. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Listen kid, we're all in it together.Anybody anybody? Brazil, where hearts were entertaining juneWe stood beneath an amber moonLa la la la la la la laaaaa Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Scram - Child Mentor Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Ultimately, at the end of the day, the "free markets"Atheist are awfully inconsiderate of certain things that may not spark mans desire to profit, but that are necessary for a well functioning society, or, that address needs that speak directly to our soul as a nation.fyp Link to post Share on other sites
AmScray 355 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Scram - Child MentorHell yeah, as far as the kids were concerned, I was far and away the most desired mentor of the lot, mainly because I bought them awesome old school toys (paddleball, whizzy hellicopter, jacks, balsa wood kit airplane, etc), taught them how to play card games and showed them how to make booger cannons. Link to post Share on other sites
AmScray 355 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 fypFunny... It was a purely secular, government organization that was there to fill those needs. When we volunteered for Habitat (which may have a general "faith" theme) the people actually cutting the wood and driving the nails were us, and a few businesses who sponsored their employees to go. No churches volunteered during my time (although I understand that theoretically, churches are supposed to have a pretty good track record in this regard)Don't recall a single pastor, Rabbi or priest who helped me restore those wetlands, pretty sure there weren't any such "religious" folks with us giving aid when Red Cross had to do their thing... Didn't see Jesus or any of the saints there to tell the kids from bottom-lower class households that spending all of their money on gold jewelry, new car payments and spinning rims would keep them in a cycle of poverty. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hell yeah, as far as the kids were concerned, I was far and away the most desired mentor of the lot, mainly because I bought them awesome old school toys (paddleball, whizzy hellicopter, jacks, balsa wood kit airplane, etc), taught them how to play card games and showed them how to make booger cannons.Plus you let them play every original Nintendo game ever and let them play with your baseball card collection.(Just kidding, of course. I know you'd shoot them on site if they ever thought about putting their grimy hands on your cards or cartridges). Link to post Share on other sites
AmScray 355 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 (Just kidding, of course. I know you'd shoot them on site if they ever thought about putting their grimy hands on your cards or cartridges).This is the truth. Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Way to start an alarmist thread over what is likely nothing at all.ROFL. But US= Fascism and FISA/NSA threads are "something at all". Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 ROFL. But US= Fascism and FISA/NSA threads are "something at all".Your interpretation, not mine.It's really sad how you started a thread on how Obama is going to form some kind of personal militia, likening it to the Nazi party. Some kind of spin doctoring. Link to post Share on other sites
RealMagnetic 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 BG,You don't need to be religious to want to do good things within your society. Atheists are just as capable. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Funny... It was a purely secular, government organization that was there to fill those needs. When we volunteered for Habitat (which may have a general "faith" theme) the people actually cutting the wood and driving the nails were us, and a few businesses who sponsored their employees to go. No churches volunteered during my time (although I understand that theoretically, churches are supposed to have a pretty good track record in this regard)Don't recall a single pastor, Rabbi or priest who helped me restore those wetlands, pretty sure there weren't any such "religious" folks with us giving aid when Red Cross had to do their thing... Didn't see Jesus or any of the saints there to tell the kids from bottom-lower class households that spending all of their money on gold jewelry, new car payments and spinning rims would keep them in a cycle of poverty.They've been busy doing this and more for thousands of years, but if you didn't see them then they must have quit recently and I didn't get the memo. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 BG,You don't need to be religious to want to do good things within your society. Atheists are just as capable. Yes they are, but they are not as active Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Yes they are, but they are not as activeI'd like to see some data on that. I suspect you are wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'd like to see some data on that. I suspect you are wrong.Okay, I'll just submit St Jude's hospital, St Josephs and most of the Ivy League schools as all founded by Christians.You're turn Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Okay, I'll just submit St Jude's hospital, St Josephs and most of the Ivy League schools as all founded by Christians.You're turnThe largest charitable donation in the U.S. by far comes from an agnostic, Warren Buffet (43.5 billion), most of it to a charitable foundation run by another agnostic, Bill Gates. Your turn. Link to post Share on other sites
x Swift x 0 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Athiests are also far less active in the bad things that happen troughout the world. So it balances really. Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 http://lippard.blogspot.com/2007/06/atheis...ble-giving.htmlMost atheists and agnostics (56 percent) agree with the idea that radical Christianity is just as threatening in America as is radical Islam. Two-thirds of active-faith Americans (63 percent) perceive that the nation is becoming more hostile and negative toward Christianity.Atheists and agnostics were found to be largely more disengaged in many areas of life than believers. They are less likely to be registered to vote (78 percent) than active-faith Americans (89 percent); to volunteer to help a non-church-related non-profit (20 percent vs. 30 percent); to describe themselves as "active in the community" (41 percent vs. 68 percent); and to personally help or serve a homeless or poor person (41 percent vs. 61 percent).Additionally, when the no-faith group does donate to charitable causes, their donation amount pales in comparison to those active in faith. In 2006, atheists and agnostics donated just $200 while believers contributed $1,500. The amount is still two times higher among believers when subtracting church-based giving. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 The largest charitable donation in the U.S. by far comes from an agnostic, Warren Buffet (43.5 billion), most of it to a charitable foundation run by another agnostic, Bill Gates. Your turn.Probably doesn't even come close to the value of the schools I mentioned.But if you feel okay getting a free ride on the back of two guys to support your philosophical sides contributions to society I guess I can let you have it.Now let's start listing hospitals, churches and soup kitchens that athiest have started that weren't the result of two men. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Athiests are also far less active in the bad things that happen troughout the world. So it balances really.coughcommunismcough Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Probably doesn't even come close to the value of the schools I mentioned.But if you feel okay getting a free ride on the back of two guys to support your philosophical sides contributions to society I guess I can let you have it.Now let's start listing hospitals, churches and soup kitchens that athiest have started that weren't the result of two men.Yeah that really can't be the way to make your argument, since there are orders of magnitude more of your people and have been throughout history. Link to post Share on other sites
Nimue1995 1 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Yeah that really can't be the way to make your argument, since there are orders of magnitude more of your people and have been throughout history.How about percentages then? Link to post Share on other sites
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