Flopped Baby Set, Drawy Board

[HighwayStar 8]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10+$1 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (MP2) (t6584)MP3 (t2910)CO (t5908)Button (t6805)SB (t7870)BB (t2898)UTG (t5054)UTG+1 (t10930)MP1 (t19072)Hero's M: 29.26Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4 , 4 3 folds, Hero raises to t450, 3 folds, SB calls t375, 1 foldFlop: (t1050) 4 , 3 , J (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets t625, SB raises to t1550 Hero?!Villain isn't terrible. Flat? Reraise/Shove?What do you think he has?I guess the board isn't hugely drawy since there's only feasible 1 straight draw.

[HighwayStar 8]

Any sensible reraise is a shove and I know that's a fine play. I guess I'm wondering if anyone ever flats here in the knowledge that's he's probably leading at any turn and we can get way more value that way.Is he often check raising with diamonds? Are we too worried about diamonds since there are only 8 left that harm us (if he has them)

[Sick Boy 0]

There's no way in hell im flat calling here, all in imo. Yes im worried about diamonds, im worried about everything, im worried about getting my money in that's what im most worried about. All in please sir.

[Gallo 1]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10+$1 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (MP2) (t6584)MP3 (t2910)CO (t5908)Button (t6805)SB (t7870)BB (t2898)UTG (t5054)UTG+1 (t10930)MP1 (t19072)Hero's M: 29.26Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4 , 4 3 folds, Hero raises to t450, 3 folds, SB calls t375, 1 foldFlop: (t1050) 4 , 3 , J (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets t625, SB raises to t1550 Hero?!Villain isn't terrible. Flat? Reraise/Shove?What do you think he has?I guess the board isn't hugely drawy since there's only feasible 1 straight draw.

His r/r seems more like he has hand rather than a raise to draw, especially since he is out of position. I would probably give him some rope and let him lead out the turn and then shove on him.You could be up against top pair, over pair, 2 pair, a set I really don't see him having JJ here, I mean it is possible, but you might have the best of it right now.

[MovingIn 0]

He either has a flush draw, bottom set or jacks. I'd only give him credit for top pair if I've seen him show down top pair after c/r'ing a flop like that or something similar.

[outsider13 0]

I don't think I'd ever not shove here. It seems like fd is the only possibility here because his showing up with a straight draw puts him with A2 or A5 which are both 4 outers. Villain has Axdd often, and JJ or 44 possibly or AJ/KJ. QQ+ would rr preflop. Give him the pile (or raise to 4172). I think it looks like a fd more than anything so I don't think a flat would be good here.

[BeaverStyle 1]

This could easily be KK/AA or AJ... or the flush draw. I ship it in here, hoping to get snapped off by AA. If up against AKdd.... just hit quads and you're fine :-DI think flat-calling the flop is bad because if a non-diamond K or Q falls on the turn, you could lose value from AJ.

[Gallo 1]

I don't think I'd ever not shove here. It seems like fd is the only possibility here because his showing up with a straight draw puts him with A2 or A5 which are both 4 outers. Villain has Axdd often, and JJ or 44 possibly or AJ/KJ. QQ+ would rr preflop. Give him the pile (or raise to 4172). I think it looks like a fd more than anything so I don't think a flat would be good here.

IDK, I was sort of in a same situation last night, except I had flopped top set with AA, there was a possible flush draw out there. The BB had called my raise PF, he checked and I bet, he r/r and I just called and then let him put me all in on the turn. The thing was normally I see a FD min r/r'ing. If I see a r/r that is more than the minimum I usually think they have some kind of hand.

[Gallo 1]

This could easily be KK/AA or AJ... or the flush draw. I ship it in here, hoping to get snapped off by AA. If up against AKdd.... just hit quads and you're fine :-DI think flat-calling the flop is bad because if a non-diamond K or Q falls on the turn, you could lose value from AJ.

IDK, I mean, you're correct in that a K or Q could kill our action, but at the same time it's possible a K or Q doesn't fall. I understand that we don't lose value, but I also don't think we should also worry about what card will fall next., but that's just me. I'm a trappy player, so that's my style of play.

[HighwayStar 8]

I think shoving here folds out everything except sets, a weirdly played QQ and AJ (i doubt he has KK/AA) and possily flush draws - not getting correct odds (I think).I guess my main question is what do you think he check-raising with here. I think I know where to go with that information but I'm not sure of what most players are doing it with. In his spot, on that board I don't think I'm check-raising with anything. I'm either leading out or check/folding. I may C/R with a set or air if I'm feeling particularly frisky I guess.I 100% bet AJ, I 100% bet a flush draw and I think I 75% bet a set.

[BeaverStyle 1]

IDK, I mean, you're correct in that a K or Q could kill our action, but at the same time it's possible a K or Q doesn't fall. I understand that we don't lose value, but I also don't think we should also worry about what card will fall next., but that's just me. I'm a trappy player, so that's my style of play.

Yeah, I agree, I'm just saying that exactly AJ will either call off all his chips here or he won't. I'm all for trapping w/ middle set here, but since Villain called pre and c/r'd flop, which screams strength to me, I'd rather push hoping to make villain think I'M the one semi-bluff betting w/ a flush draw or value-towning myself w/ Jx.I think just calling the reraise is certainly a viable option as well, and I probably do it about half the time, and shove half the time.

[HighwayStar 8]

Yeah, I agree, I'm just saying that exactly AJ will either call off all his chips here or he won't. I'm all for trapping w/ middle set here, but since Villain called pre and c/r'd flop, which screams strength to me, I'd rather push hoping to make villain think I'M the one semi-bluff betting w/ a flush draw or value-towning myself w/ Jx.I think just calling the reraise is certainly a viable option as well, and I probably do it about half the time, and shove half the time.

This is a good point I hadn't really thought of.I did shove and he tank folded. Said he folded AJ which isn';t too unbelievable.

[Gallo 1]

I think shoving here folds out everything except sets, a weirdly played QQ and AJ (i doubt he has KK/AA) and possily flush draws - not getting correct odds (I think).I guess my main question is what do you think he check-raising with here. I think I know where to go with that information but I'm not sure of what most players are doing it with. In his spot, on that board I don't think I'm check-raising with anything. I'm either leading out or check/folding. I may C/R with a set or air if I'm feeling particularly frisky I guess.I 100% bet AJ, I 100% bet a flush draw and I think I 75% bet a set.

Yeah, I agree, I'm just saying that exactly AJ will either call off all his chips here or he won't. I'm all for trapping w/ middle set here, but since Villain called pre and c/r'd flop, which screams strength to me, I'd rather push hoping to make villain think I'M the one semi-bluff betting w/ a flush draw or value-towning myself w/ Jx.I think just calling the reraise is certainly a viable option as well, and I probably do it about half the time, and shove half the time.

That's the reason, I wouldn't want to shove, I don't want to have villain fold a hand like AJ, I want him to feel comfortable with his hand and make him think he's good and then possibly get it in on the turn. The other thing that I think we all failed to mention is the stack sizes here. If Hero or villain had smaller stack then I would almost definitely shove the flop, but because we both have larger stacks, I want to get as much of his stack as possible. I'm assuming with a stack like Villain's he possibly doesn't want to go broke with just top pair, although alot of people would. So because of our stack sizes is probably another reason I would just call his raise, but I'd take a little time before calling giving him the idea that we might just have a middle pair or something.

[outsider13 0]

That's the reason, I wouldn't want to shove, I don't want to have villain fold a hand like AJ, I want him to feel comfortable with his hand and make him think he's good and then possibly get it in on the turn. The other thing that I think we all failed to mention is the stack sizes here. If Hero or villain had smaller stack then I would almost definitely shove the flop, but because we both have larger stacks, I want to get as much of his stack as possible. I'm assuming with a stack like Villain's he possibly doesn't want to go broke with just top pair, although alot of people would. So because of our stack sizes is probably another reason I would just call his raise, but I'd take a little time before calling giving him the idea that we might just have a middle pair or something.

And then what do you do when a diamond comes and he shoves? I personally like the shove because as Beaverstyle said, that definitely looks like a draw more than the flat call and the guy has definitely shown interest. I guess the Hellmuthian/slower style of letting a guy hang themselves is more your style, I guess it's a matter of preference. I'd rather give him the pile right there.For your play though, why not min-raise and try and induce him to shove? He'd be certainly priced in to at least call. Are you leaving yourself an exit strategy by flatting or is it more of trapping, or both? After thinking about it, minraise/shove turn isn't so bad considering stack sizes. You price in the AJ now, and you just have to pray for the no diamond turn.

[BeaverStyle 1]

That's the reason, I wouldn't want to shove, I don't want to have villain fold a hand like AJ, I want him to feel comfortable with his hand and make him think he's good and then possibly get it in on the turn. The other thing that I think we all failed to mention is the stack sizes here. If Hero or villain had smaller stack then I would almost definitely shove the flop, but because we both have larger stacks, I want to get as much of his stack as possible. I'm assuming with a stack like Villain's he possibly doesn't want to go broke with just top pair, although alot of people would. So because of our stack sizes is probably another reason I would just call his raise, but I'd take a little time before calling giving him the idea that we might just have a middle pair or something.

For pushing all in to work and get villain to get all his chips in, we have to know that he believes that hero could potentially make this move w/ the NFD+Overs. If we can't be sure, then flatting the c/r is definitely a great option. Let villain hang himself on the turn.

[Gallo 1]

And then what do you do when a diamond comes and he shoves? I personally like the shove because as Beaverstyle said, that definitely looks like a draw more than the flat call and the guy has definitely shown interest. I guess the Hellmuthian/slower style of letting a guy hang themselves is more your style, I guess it's a matter of preference. I'd rather give him the pile right there.For your play though, why not min-raise and try and induce him to shove? He'd be certainly priced in to at least call. Are you leaving yourself an exit strategy by flatting or is it more of trapping, or both? After thinking about it, minraise/shove turn isn't so bad considering stack sizes. You price in the AJ now, and you just have to pray for the no diamond turn.

TBH, if I put the villain on an actual hand then I'm not really worried about a diamond. I mean, I don't think we can worry about every scare card all the time. There are times when I do worry about it, but it depends on how the hand has played itself out. If a diamond does happen to fall then I guess we have to play it a little more careful and try to decide if villain does indeed have a flush draw or not. The thing is that I know that if a non-diamond card comes up then I will probably raise the villain on the turn and the chips will be getting in there. The good thing is that we have position in this hand, so in a sense we still control the action even if the villain doesn't realize it.I don't know if there is a correct way to play it, but that's how I would play it and I am totally not saying that mine is correct, just how I would play it.

[Gallo 1]

Other thing is that what if the villain thinks that we are on a flush draw? Then he might check the turn and allow us to either take away the pot right there or check the turn and see a free card. Then based on our reads we can c/c river.

[Mercury69 3]

You're a 3 to 1 favorite against a flush/straight draw. Unfortunately, this reverses if a D hits the turn. If a black 5, for example, comes on the turn, you are still 7 to 3.RRAI?