Zach6668 513 Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 It doesn't have to be a wad. Build a bankroll like everyone else. Complaining that you can't afford to lose $X is a cop-out. It's also an extremely easy problem to fix. 1) Don't play those stakes, or 2) Build your bankroll up to where you are comfortable playing those stakes. Seperate life and poker money. Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 How much can you lose per weekend? Can you lose $50? Take a month off, put away the $200, throw it on Cake (w/ 33% rakeback), and sodomize the small stakes games every night until you've got 25 buy-ins for your friends' game. There's the start of a pretty solid roll. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 19, 2008 Author Share Posted September 19, 2008 I've never really thought it about that way because the Friday games are more of a social activity for me - I don't think of them as part of my poker "career." I don't have a very active social life so it's a way for me to get out of the house and do something I enjoy with some buddies, while possibly making some money in the process. It's funny now that I think about it - I made my initial deposit on Stars of $175 and said that was all I was going to put into poker, but then I started putting $100 on the line a couple times per month playing on Friday nights. Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 The world needs social players too, but if you want to make money at this, I think it's extremely important to have a bankroll separate from your life money. Mentioning this makes me seem like an ass, but I actually have quite a bit of money and could afford to lose a lot playing pretty high, but since I started taking poker seriously again, I saw it as really important to designate a bankroll appropriate for the stakes I could beat, and build it as I learn and get better. It's not the case for everyone, but for most people, even if they can afford to, buying in every time they sit down, paying for it like you're buying a pair of pants or whatever, allows them to really delude themselves about their results. And if you have a family, I would imagine a separate roll would take a lot of stresses off what happens to the money whether you win or lose. Do it. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 I don't think I could convince the wife to let me put aside several hundred dollars for my friday night poker bankroll... Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 But you could convince her to let you lose several hundred over a month or two? Doesn't she have any hobbies or pleasure expenses? I'll bet hers wouldn't end up making money. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 LOL, I joke about that with her all the time. The difference between my poker and her fancy jeans is that I can actually make money. She says, yeah but I can get years of enjoyment from my jeans while your poker lasts one evening. It's quite a debate. Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 LOL, I joke about that with her all the time. The difference between my poker and her fancy jeans is that I can actually make money. She says, yeah but I can get years of enjoyment from my jeans while your poker lasts one evening. It's quite a debate.If it's a proper bankroll, in theory it should last forever. Link to post Share on other sites
RabidTortuga 0 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 If it's a proper bankroll, in theory it should last forever......if one is or soon becomes a winning player. Link to post Share on other sites
tj9422- 0 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I guess we have different ideas of what gambling is. I'm a risk-averse type of person so I don't like putting large amounts of my money on the line. That's why I'm much more comfortable playing tourney NLHE, where the risk is limited, than cash NLHE. In LHE you may end up with more challenging situations than in NLHE, but your risk is still limited.The other thing I don't like about cash NLHE is that bad players who are aggressive and have a gambler's mentality (and who either have a lot of money or play like it's no object) can overpower people who have a good grasp of the fundamentals but don't have the same aggressive, play-like-money-is-no-object attitude. This is precisely why I struggle at my Friday night home game - I know I have a much better grasp of poker than the guys I play with and I know I have the ability to outplay them, but because I'm more concerned about my budget I tend to play too tight and cautious and I get pushed around. Unfortunately I can't convince them to play tourney style.I ran into the same trouble at my home games. I just started invited them to games at my house that where set up as limit game or tourney style and they cought on. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 I ran into the same trouble at my home games. I just started invited them to games at my house that where set up as limit game or tourney style and they cought on.I tried pushing the tourney idea but most of them hate tourney poker. They want the constant action of cash games. The odd time we have played a tourney they opt for stupidly fast structures so the tourneys play quickly. I've also moved about 20 minutes north, so none of them want to come up here. I have to see if I can find some local tourney games in my new hood. Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 ...if one is or soon becomes a winning player.Two things: I sort of assume that anyone serious enough to have thousands of posts here has reasonable enough in-game mechanics to beat home games or micro limit online games, and "proper bankroll" means that if not, it's large enough to sustain through the learning process. Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 just to fix the pokerstove-related weird discussion:JJ IS a pair, and most randomly chosen hands only make a pair bigger than it around 20% of the time.AK, when it makes a pair, makes the biggest pair.96s, when it makes a pair, usually makes 2nd or 3rd pair.i'm not quite sure why we're even discussing the relative ranks of these hands?that said, if there are 5 limpers and you have 96s on the button, raise. the reason for doing so has less to do with your hand's overall equity than it does to do with the fact that draws have a lot more potential equity when played in position, due to free card plays, value raises, etc. single pair hands have similar potential equity from most positions, since how one should play tp depends more on position relative to a preflop raiser than on absolute position. also, inflated pots are better for drawing hands since they don't really play any differently in a big pot or a small one (unless it's very small and we're folding the turn with an oesd), but single pair hands in inflated pots can allow stations to play unintentionally correct postflop when we flop a pair and they have overcards, etc. that's not to say that you shouldn't raise ak, but rather that when you do, in a very loose game, you have to realize that idiots mashing the call button are going to be doing so correctly postflop more often than they would if the pot were smaller, and that your variance with AK is usually going to be higher than with 96s thereby (if you're playing at LP games).i'm quite drunk. sorry if that didn't make sense, but i think it did. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 Actually that was quite articulate for a drunk guy.It seems to me that one of the challenges of moving from NLHE to LHE is not being able to rely on the NLHE player's bread-and-butter, the PF raise and CB to either steal pots or charge draws incorrect prices. Say you raise AA and get 4 callers and the flop is draw heavy. Do you keep betting until a draw completes, or do you tend to pull back? Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Actually that was quite articulate for a drunk guy.It seems to me that one of the challenges of moving from NLHE to LHE is not being able to rely on the NLHE player's bread-and-butter, the PF raise and CB to either steal pots or charge draws incorrect prices. Say you raise AA and get 4 callers and the flop is draw heavy. Do you keep betting until a draw completes, or do you tend to pull back?if i raise preflop with AA and get four callers, my biggest concern is doing whatever i can to knock people out of the pot on the flop on pretty much any texture board. b/3b, c/r, whatever. if players are flatting a fairly small range of hands, pps, and like Q10-A10 only, and i raise AA, four of those guys flat, and the flop comes 10JQ sss (and i don't have the As), i often c/c the flop to keep the pot small-ish and donk a bricked turn to avoid shoving money into the pot when i'm at best dodging 1/2 the deck and at worst already fairly far behind. doing something like that seems like it costs a lot of equity, but if you're really thinking about your opponents' ranges, it's not really costing us much at all if the board comes that ugly. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 Would it also be fair to say that the gap concept has less significance in LHE than NLHE (at least with respect to suited and/or connected cards) because you'll often get the right price to draw postflop when you call a PF raise with those hands? I'm just trying to get a sense of the major strategic adjustments required in moving from NLHE to LHE. Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Would it also be fair to say that the gap concept has less significance in LHE than NLHE (at least with respect to suited and/or connected cards) because you'll often get the right price to draw postflop when you call a PF raise with those hands? I'm just trying to get a sense of the major strategic adjustments required in moving from NLHE to LHE.No, not in general. It really depends on the game texture. If you're playing in a game with really spewy post-flop action and lot and lot of limpers, and little chance of a 3-bet behind, it's OK to cold call some stuff like KJs or 55 or something, in my opinion, but as a rule, cold-calling is a no-no. Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 pardon my ignorance, but i'm not into book learnin'. what's the gap concept? Link to post Share on other sites
Dirtydutch 8 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 pardon my ignorance, but i'm not into book learnin'. what's the gap concept?Basically the principle that you can raise pre-flop with worse hole cards than it would take to just call, in a lot of instances, I believe. Link to post Share on other sites
Frez 0 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 pardon my ignorance, but i'm not into book learnin'. what's the gap concept?It's Skalansky - it takes a stonger hand to call a raise than it does to make one. Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 It's Skalansky - it takes a stonger hand to call a raise than it does to make one.unless you're me in a blind battle Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 i dont feel like digging through my bookshelves, but im pretty sure the gap concept applies to tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 I thought it was just one of those fundamental laws of poker in general... Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I thought it was just one of those fundamental laws of poker in general...Sklansky defined it in Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, IIRC. I'm sure it applies more to short-stack situations, because in other situations it's not so important how our hand runs hot & cold against the preflop raiser. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 Now that you mention it I guess that would make perfect sense. Link to post Share on other sites
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