Preflop Raising At Loose Cheap Tables

[jmbreslin 0]

I was watching some of the WSOP Europe coverage and there was a clip of Doyle where he said, "I've had knives pulled on me, I've had guns pulled on me. I've seen three guys die at the poker table, one of them shot." And we wonder why it's not easy convincing people that poker isn't just for degenerate outlaw gamblers.

[TheCinciKid 0]

I found this thread very interesting. FWIW, I would highly recommend that the OP read Small Stakes Hold'em, by Ed Miller and David Sklansky. Great book about loose limit hold'em games that will definitely clear up the issues you raised in the OP about raising in LHE. Unfortunatley, SSHE is much less relevant today than it was 4 years ago when I was getting into poker, but it's still relevant for low stakes games. I thought what Wang said was also spot on. People don't understand poker and even though I try to explain that I'm winning money lifetime, many people don't get it and just say "you just love to gamble." Which is true, but it has no relevance to whether or not poker is +EV for me. I do think you have to have something of a gambling problem to really get into poker and while I don't have nearly the sicko degenerate nature of some gamblers, I do enjoy having action on a sporting event and I've been known to gamble on things I shouldn't. I'm not really sure where I was going with the above, but I guess my point is, LHE can be a fun way to make money, but it's definitely a very gambley game. I actually can't stand the lack of action in NL followed by the moments of intense sheer terror when you do put your money on the line. I'd rather be in there constantly gambling. That said, if I was better at NL, and had the patience to sit around and play like a nit, I could probably cut down the variance a little. Finally, the OP mentioned playing in Vegas. I don't know if you've gone yet, but I was there last year and I found that it's much, much easier to find a 1-2 NL game (on the strip and downtown, I don't know much about off-strip casinos) than it is to find a limit game. If you do find a limit game it's either going to be of the 2/4, 3/6, 4/8 variety or 10/20 or higher. The two 8/16 games I found (which is just a small step up from the 6/12 I'd been playing at my local Cincinnati casino) had significantly better players than I'd found in a mid/low stakes game back home. All of that said, for a recreational player in the OP's position who just wants to go and have fun. I'd definitely recommend reading SSHE, then playing 3/6. If you're decent, you can make a couple hundred in the trip easily and have a great time doing it.

[Dirtydutch 8]

I'd definitely recommend reading SSHE, then playing 3/6. If you're decent, you can make a couple hundred in the trip easily and have a great time doing it.

It seems to me that he's not budgeted to play those stakes, though. I don't think he wants a soft game he can beat, I think he wants a way to make money and have fun without any risk of losing enough money to piss off his wife, which is impossible because those stakes don't exist live and even if they did I doubt he'd have fun playing that low. If you play an optimal, aggressive style in a 3/6 game, you 100% will have $1,200+ swings if you play enough. To do this -- not just "right" but to pull it off at all -- you need either a really understanding wife or a way to absorb the wins and loses and thus shield her from the principles of deviation she so clearly doesn't understand. I.e. a bankroll.

[TheCinciKid 0]

It seems to me that he's not budgeted to play those stakes, though. I don't think he wants a soft game he can beat, I think he wants a way to make money and have fun without any risk of losing enough money to piss off his wife, which is impossible because those stakes don't exist live and even if they did I doubt he'd have fun playing that low. If you play an optimal, aggressive style in a 3/6 game, you 100% will have $1,200+ swings if you play enough. To do this -- not just "right" but to pull it off at all -- you need either a really understanding wife or a way to absorb the wins and loses and thus shield her from the principles of deviation she so clearly doesn't understand. I.e. a bankroll.

I understand your point here. Maybe I've just been really lucky when I've played live 3/6, but I've never really had to absorb swings like that. Obviously, I agree with you that the OP needs a separate poker bankroll. That said, if he's taking a trip to Vegas and just looking to have fun while he's there, I'd suggest limit over NL. Let's say he's got a gambling budget of $600. I think he's better chance of not playing scared money at a 3/6 or even 4/8 limit table than he would at a 1-2 NL table where one third of his "bankroll" is potentially at risk in any given hand. That said, a separate poker bankroll can solve all fo these problems.

[jmbreslin 0]

Yeah, 3/6 is a bit out of my league. I am very excited about discovering $1 NLHE at Bill's, though.

[Zach6668 513]

They have a $1/$1 $40 max buyin at Stratosphere. I'm not sure how often it runs, though. When I went there to play and drink, they only had regular 1/2 games going.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Yeah, 3/6 is a bit out of my league. I am very excited about discovering $1 NLHE at Bill's, though.

For someone who plays online, 3/6 may sound " out of your league" but I swear to god most 3/6 live games are softer than like .10/.20 online. Now, out of your league might mean out of your bankroll, which is absolutely fair. But if you can't beat a soft 3/6 game live ( with sufficient br, of course) then you should just stick to mirco limits online and learn how to play.