Call Or Fold? 25c, Nl

[Nopair3high 0]

Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25)Table 'Neufang' 6-max Seat #4 is the buttonSeat 1: demuddi ($26.45 in chips) Seat 2: 2tuza.ru ($15.35 in chips) Seat 3: fredd-bird ($26.05 in chips) Seat 4: liveshine ($26.70 in chips) Seat 5: rellesario ($27.25 in chips) Seat 6: ChipIn4Eagle ($18.85 in chips) rellesario: posts small blind $0.10ChipIn4Eagle: posts big blind $0.25*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to ChipIn4Eagle [7h 7d]demuddi: folds 2tuza.ru: folds fredd-bird: folds liveshine: folds rellesario: raises $0.50 to $0.75ChipIn4Eagle: calls $0.50*** FLOP *** [Qd 7s 3d]rellesario: bets $1ChipIn4Eagle: calls $1*** TURN *** [Qd 7s 3d] [8s]rellesario: bets $2.25ChipIn4Eagle: raises $3.50 to $5.75rellesario: calls $3.50*** RIVER *** [Qd 7s 3d 8s] [5d]rellesario: bets $12Rellesario just sat down at the table maybe been there one orbit or so, no reads on him, took down one pot with a preflop raise and a bet on the flop. Debated raising on the flop but decided i wanted to string him along a bit, probably should've raised for information, but that's not my question. As played, call or fold?

[AcesOnFire 0]

You can probably raise the turn more. Shove the river. Profit.This is AQ/KQ alot of the time.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25)Table 'Neufang' 6-max Seat #4 is the buttonSeat 1: demuddi ($26.45 in chips) Seat 2: 2tuza.ru ($15.35 in chips) Seat 3: fredd-bird ($26.05 in chips) Seat 4: liveshine ($26.70 in chips) Seat 5: rellesario ($27.25 in chips) Seat 6: ChipIn4Eagle ($18.85 in chips) rellesario: posts small blind $0.10ChipIn4Eagle: posts big blind $0.25*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to ChipIn4Eagle [7h 7d]demuddi: folds 2tuza.ru: folds fredd-bird: folds liveshine: folds rellesario: raises $0.50 to $0.75ChipIn4Eagle: calls $0.50*** FLOP *** [Qd 7s 3d]rellesario: bets $1ChipIn4Eagle: calls $1*** TURN *** [Qd 7s 3d] [8s]rellesario: bets $2.25ChipIn4Eagle: raises $3.50 to $5.75rellesario: calls $3.50*** RIVER *** [Qd 7s 3d 8s] [5d]rellesario: bets $12Rellesario just sat down at the table maybe been there one orbit or so, no reads on him, took down one pot with a preflop raise and a bet on the flop. Debated raising on the flop but decided i wanted to string him along a bit, probably should've raised for information, but that's not my question. As played, call or fold?

As played, I call, sigh, and note that he bets draws.

[tskillz187 0]

Pf I'd probably reraise, it's blind v blind and he's likely raising a lot of hands there. You want to be aggressive, not passive, so it's important that you play that way pf. If we had raised pf and he called, flop you'd bet out like any old board you'd cbet on (the pot will be bigger and you will get all in much quicker this way). As played with a call pf, the flop is villain dependent. With no info on him I'd probably just raise and try to bloat the pot. You want to play big pots with big hands, so get a raise in here and see if he connected with anything. If he has none of the board, you probably weren't getting a turn bet anyways. Your small turn raise is horrible. You need to make it bigger. I'd probably raise it to at least $8. The hand plays itself then, you are committed on the river. Everything played the same and we are in your river situation, I'd shove. This is either shove or fold, not call or fold, he's never folding to your raise, so if he's going to bet the river with worse (the reason you think it could be a call) then you need to be raising all in, not calling. I hope that sentence doesn't suck. Basically if you think he's betting AQ, lower sets, or two pair, you should raise all in, he's going to call the raise.

[Canadianpoker83 0]

Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25)Table 'Neufang' 6-max Seat #4 is the buttonSeat 1: demuddi ($26.45 in chips) Seat 2: 2tuza.ru ($15.35 in chips) Seat 3: fredd-bird ($26.05 in chips) Seat 4: liveshine ($26.70 in chips) Seat 5: rellesario ($27.25 in chips) Seat 6: ChipIn4Eagle ($18.85 in chips) rellesario: posts small blind $0.10ChipIn4Eagle: posts big blind $0.25*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to ChipIn4Eagle [7h 7d]demuddi: folds 2tuza.ru: folds fredd-bird: folds liveshine: folds rellesario: raises $0.50 to $0.75ChipIn4Eagle: calls $0.50*** FLOP *** [Qd 7s 3d]rellesario: bets $1ChipIn4Eagle: calls $1*** TURN *** [Qd 7s 3d] [8s]rellesario: bets $2.25ChipIn4Eagle: raises $3.50 to $5.75rellesario: calls $3.50*** RIVER *** [Qd 7s 3d 8s] [5d]rellesario: bets $12Rellesario just sat down at the table maybe been there one orbit or so, no reads on him, took down one pot with a preflop raise and a bet on the flop. Debated raising on the flop but decided i wanted to string him along a bit, probably should've raised for information, but that's not my question. As played, call or fold?

How would raising the flop define his hand? At these stakes he probably would have called your raise with a queen or a flush draw. Maybe even with a pair of J's 10's or 9's. All you would be doing is making the pot bigger, and possibly face a big big bet on the turn or the river is a scare card came out like a diamond.I would probably smooth call the flop, then raise his $2.25 bet to about $8 or $9 on the turn. River is a tricky situation. If he is a smart player he probably knows you don't have the flush draw so it's possible he is trying to represent that he has one, when in fact he may only have a queen. I'd consider folding in that spot, but i think in the end i would call. It's possible he may have flopped a set as well

[Nopair3high 0]

Pf I'd probably reraise, it's blind v blind and he's likely raising a lot of hands there. You want to be aggressive, not passive, so it's important that you play that way pf. If we had raised pf and he called, flop you'd bet out like any old board you'd cbet on (the pot will be bigger and you will get all in much quicker this way). As played with a call pf, the flop is villain dependent. With no info on him I'd probably just raise and try to bloat the pot. You want to play big pots with big hands, so get a raise in here and see if he connected with anything. If he has none of the board, you probably weren't getting a turn bet anyways. Your small turn raise is horrible. You need to make it bigger. I'd probably raise it to at least $8. The hand plays itself then, you are committed on the river. Everything played the same and we are in your river situation, I'd shove. This is either shove or fold, not call or fold, he's never folding to your raise, so if he's going to bet the river with worse (the reason you think it could be a call) then you need to be raising all in, not calling. I hope that sentence doesn't suck. Basically if you think he's betting AQ, lower sets, or two pair, you should raise all in, he's going to call the raise.

I don't agree re-raising preflop, not my style so to speak, I prefer to get to the flop cheaper and then let him hang himself if I hit the flop the way I want. I agree my turn raise was too small, but again i am trying to extract value, also i made that raise based on my stack size. I didn't want to raise to like $8 and leave myself with a stack that I feel committed to shoving regardless of the river. If he doesn't shove on me at the river, then it gives me more options. If he bets I can call if I'm worried i'm beat and not risk my whole stack, i can raise him if i think i have him, and if he checks I can make a value bet and/or shove into him. At least that was my thinking at the time.

[tskillz187 0]

I don't agree re-raising preflop, not my style so to speak, I prefer to get to the flop cheaper and then let him hang himself if I hit the flop the way I want. I agree my turn raise was too small, but again i am trying to extract value, also i made that raise based on my stack size. I didn't want to raise to like $8 and leave myself with a stack that I feel committed to shoving regardless of the river. If he doesn't shove on me at the river, then it gives me more options. If he bets I can call if I'm worried i'm beat and not risk my whole stack, i can raise him if i think i have him, and if he checks I can make a value bet and/or shove into him. At least that was my thinking at the time.

It's not a stylistic thing, not reraising preflop is flaw. It's too strong a hand to not reraise. You aren't going to hit enough flops "the way you want" to flat call in blind v blind here with 77. And when you do hit those flops (this case) you put yourself into a tough river decision, so you can't think that you have played it all that well, right? A big key in winning and small stakes is setting yourself up to make easy decisions, not hard ones. The way you played the hand by the river you are just closing your eyes and guessing. These decisions are easier (and more correct) if you bet and raise (bigger) at basically every decision in the hand.What hands are you trying to extract value from on the turn? The reason you bet the turn bigger is so that you charge a flush draw to draw getting the incorrect odds. Other possible hands are likely drawing dead, but it's still better to bet bigger on the turn, because then you can shove the river and it's a much smaller bet for him to call. If he calls the turn he will talk himself into calling the river because the pot is too big etc. There is just a lot of flawed thinking in the hand. That's fine, it's great you are posting in NL strat to try and get better. I think it might be helpful to read the pinned post at the top about a web page a few regulars here helped to make. There is some great advice in there. Also getting a program like Pokertracker or Holdem Manager would be helpful.

[Nopair3high 0]

It's not a stylistic thing, not reraising preflop is flaw. It's too strong a hand to not reraise. You aren't going to hit enough flops "the way you want" to flat call in blind v blind here with 77. And when you do hit those flops (this case) you put yourself into a tough river decision, so you can't think that you have played it all that well, right? A big key in winning and small stakes is setting yourself up to make easy decisions, not hard ones. The way you played the hand by the river you are just closing your eyes and guessing. These decisions are easier (and more correct) if you bet and raise (bigger) at basically every decision in the hand.What hands are you trying to extract value from on the turn? The reason you bet the turn bigger is so that you charge a flush draw to draw getting the incorrect odds. Other possible hands are likely drawing dead, but it's still better to bet bigger on the turn, because then you can shove the river and it's a much smaller bet for him to call. If he calls the turn he will talk himself into calling the river because the pot is too big etc. There is just a lot of flawed thinking in the hand. That's fine, it's great you are posting in NL strat to try and get better. I think it might be helpful to read the pinned post at the top about a web page a few regulars here helped to make. There is some great advice in there. Also getting a program like Pokertracker or Holdem Manager would be helpful.

I think my thinking in this stems from my MTT play. I don't play a lot of cash game and you're right.. my goal should be to give myself easy decisions and take my hits and reload if I end up facing the flush, straight, or QQ here, and bigger raises would do that. I seem to be trying to protect my chips too much in cash play, which looking back is what I was trying to do here, keep the pot small so that I can give myself the chance to avoid busting. Same hand in a tournament played the same way, i fold at the river and pick a better spot. Although in tourney or cash game I don't like the way I played the hand. Hence why I posted it.btw... I called, he had Kd,10d for the flush. whats the point of giving yourself the chance to fold it if you're not going to follow through by actually folding when the bet comes? lol... isn't everyone allowed to play a hand horribly every now and then?

[mtdesmoines 3]

btw... I called, he had Kd,10d for the flush. whats the point of giving yourself the chance to fold it if you're not going to follow through by actually folding when the bet comes? lol... isn't everyone allowed to play a hand horribly every now and then?

I think the turn play is critical here. Any coordinating board with action on the flop I think is an opportunity to raise and extract value. That makes our turn shove easier to do and forces the villain to make poorer decisions.EDIT: instead of us valuetowning him on the turn, we got valuetowned on the river.

[tskillz187 0]

When I first converted from MTT to cash it was a very tough mindset to just not care if you get stacked. It means so little in cash games. The whole point is just trying to make good decisions and live with it, tourneys are kind of the same, but the threat of death makes controlling pots more key and losing a little value along the way isn't so bad.

[NoBBiR 0]

I don't mind flatting preflop occasionally. BvB from the BB, it's probably better to just 3bet though.Raise the flop.Raise more on the turn. Sigh/call river without a read.

[No_Neck 0]

It's not a stylistic thing, not reraising preflop is flaw. It's too strong a hand to not reraise.

this is not good advice.

[tskillz187 0]

Reasoning please?

[No_Neck 0]

Reasoning please?

Why get him to fold all the hands we want him to see a flop with? And all the hands we get value on later streets with, these games are so passive preflop I don't mind just calling.

[tskillz187 0]

Why get him to fold all the hands we want him to see a flop with? And all the hands we get value on later streets with, these games are so passive preflop I don't mind just calling.

I really disagree with that. I also feel like these two things are very contradictory. We're either not raising because we think our hand is crushing his range and he'll fold out his range we crush. Or we're not raising because people play so passive pf that a raise is -EV.I think that you believe 77 is ahead of his pf raising range. If you believe you're ahead of his raising range, you should value reraise like 90% and then call 10% for deception. Same with basically any hand, if you think your hand is ahead of the other persons raising range, reraise for value.

[pokerinc 0]

Why get him to fold all the hands we want him to see a flop with? And all the hands we get value on later streets with, these games are so passive preflop I don't mind just calling.

We don't want him to see a flop with much b/c that flop's going to most of the times miss us and come with overs making the hand harder to play. We has a pair, he's probably raising wide, let's make him pay and think twice about making that raise w/ k10 again next orbit.His advice about making things easier is spot on. Had there been a 3 bet pre, then he flops his set against flush draw, the betting would have been much easier on even a less experienced player, bet bet raise!!!!!!

[No_Neck 0]

i dunno I think re raising makes the hand much harder to play.

[Nopair3high 0]

glad to see i sparked a lil controversy. lol. I still think in a cash game mindset in retrospect I like re-raising preflop although i don't think calling his horrible preflop and on the flop, although my turn bet should have been bigger for sure. Still think this is a classic case of where my tournament upbringing negatively affects my cash game play.

[king1305 0]

I think flatting and playing position post flop is fine with 77.Flop looks ok, although I might put in a little raise here to represent a flush draw. Turn def make it more. Something like 8.50. As played, I call the river but I'm a station/POW. This is such a good card to barrel.EDIT---- Actually, I didn't notice our stack size. I'm def raising flop and looking to get it in on any turn. Or if you just flat flop then prob shove turn.Back to noneditted part...The turn is the most important street on this hand though, because the board is pretty coordinated and a lot of cards come that either make the draw or kill your action.

[SCS 0]

If villain had raised from the button, I'd be more inclined to 3bet preflop with 77. Since villain was in the sb though, and we will be in position after the flop, 3 betting or flat calling are both acceptable options here. Although I'd lean slightly towards 3betting.I think the flop is an easy raise here. If villain has a Q or a flush draw, or an overpair, he's probably going to try to get it in on the flop. If not than you won't win anymore money on future streets anyway.

[Zach6668 513]

I'd much prefer reraising preflop. WTF are you gonna do on a JT3 flop when he leads for the pot? Where do you stand?