How Much More Proof Do You Need?

[checkymcfold 0]

*rapid LOL*Talk about situational ethics. So, when gas was .99 cents a gallon, were you an avid petroleum free-marketeer?

i wasn't making any sort of ethical point, but rather a practical one. i don't think the method by which we stop using so much oil is really that important as compared to the end result (at least to a reasonable degree), and if the free market proves to be an adequate avenue of achieving that end, i'm all for it.

[checkymcfold 0]

Reminds me the first time my account called me and told me to write a check to the IRS for $90,000 for additional taxes on top of what I had already paid.I said to him: I thought there were 'ways' to get out of taxes for rich people.He said: Nope, write the checkThe only people that don't pay taxes are people that invest solely in tax free municiple bonds, and people like Marc Rich who got a presidential pardon by Bill Clinton for a $48 million tax bill.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle1996735.ecepretty much that, yeah.as to the OP, well, meh. shit has happened, shit is not good right now, and selectively blaming it all on one party or the other is pretty much retarded. i would like to know, however, how you're able to put the rising price of oil on the democratic party when it all coincided with our little adventure in iraq. did democrats start that one, too?

[nutzbuster 7]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle1996735.ecepretty much that, yeah.

That is a great article , Buffett.Taxes suk azzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[wsop2008 0]

ummm big macs are already $5

[BigLebowski 0]

How about we just get rid of the IRS and all of their contrived tax regulations?FairTax FTW!!For those of you who think the rich pay 30-33%.....I suggest you listen to someone who is willing to tell the truth. Someone like, say, Warren Buffett. Sorry BG, you may be rich, but you are not THAT rich.

[Balloon guy 158]

How about we just get rid of the IRS and all of their contrived tax regulations?FairTax FTW!!For those of you who think the rich pay 30-33%.....I suggest you listen to someone who is willing to tell the truth. Someone like, say, Warren Buffett. Sorry BG, you may be rich, but you are not THAT rich.

LOLHe was talking about capital gains tax.You know the tax on money he paid taxes on then invested, then the C corp paid taxes on and sent him his dividend, then Buffet paid taxes again.That money. It's the highest taxed money there is.

[Balloon guy 158]

i would like to know, however, how you're able to put the rising price of oil on the democratic party when it all coincided with our little adventure in iraq. did democrats start that one, too?

Well they did vote for it overwhelmingly, so to pretend they weren't active participants is off.

[checkymcfold 0]

Well they did vote for it overwhelmingly, so to pretend they weren't active participants is off.

ergo, democrats are to blame for rising oil prices. i see.

[nutzbuster 7]

ergo, democrats are to blame for rising oil prices. i see.

GIVE THAT MAN A CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEGAR!

[AmScray 355]

i wasn't making any sort of ethical point, but rather a practical one. i don't think the method by which we stop using so much oil is really that important as compared to the end result (at least to a reasonable degree), and if the free market proves to be an adequate avenue of achieving that end, i'm all for it.

This post is basically a qualifier to your first post. In your first post, you championed free markets as being in league with 'environmental concerns'.Is this a consistent position you take, or is a situational position that you currently take because right now oil is high, but should oil ever adjust back downward into affordable ranges, you would change your mind about the free market and its interplay with 'environmental interests' and start wailing for some kind of government intervention to coerce people into using less gasoline?

[checkymcfold 0]

This post is basically a qualifier to your first post. In your first post, you championed free markets as being in league with 'environmental concerns'.

no, you misread my first post. it's ok, happens to the best of us.

Is this a consistent position you take, or is a situational position that you currently take because right now oil is high, but should oil ever adjust back downward into affordable ranges, you would change your mind about the free market and its interplay with 'environmental interests' and start wailing for some kind of government intervention to coerce people into using less gasoline?

it's not difficult. i'm not a fan of unregulated, free market economics, but i happen to think that that concern is secondary to environmental problems. all clear?

[akoff 0]

i'm not a fan of unregulated, free market economics, but i happen to think that that concern is secondary to environmental problems. all clear?

All clear...frieghtening but clear.

[AmScray 355]

the higher price of oil these days is a decent example of how the free market isn't antithetical to environmental concerns

aaaaand, the qualifier....

i don't think the method by which we stop using so much oil is really that important as compared to the end result (at least to a reasonable degree), and if the free market proves to be an adequate avenue of achieving that end, i'm all for it.

The first post was a declarative statement about free markets and the environment. Here it is again, just in case you insist on denying it any further.

the higher price of oil these days is a decent example of how the free market isn't antithetical to environmental concerns

The second post was a qualifier to the first one- well, yeah, OK, maybe the free markets are OK as long as what they're achieving is stopping people from using more oil. There isn't any argument here. The beauty of the internet is the things you say don't vanish in time, like spoken words. They're right there to be accounted for and they're kinda hard to deny.

[checkymcfold 0]

do you know what "isn't antithetical" means, and how that's different from "are aligned i suck free market **** zomg"?you are an absurd little guy, sometimes.

[AmScray 355]

do you know what "isn't antithetical" means, and how that's different from "are aligned i suck free market **** zomg"?you are an absurd little guy, sometimes.

If I said that carbon emissions aren't antithetical to global warming, what would that mean?In your own words. Please.I see that you're not going down this garden path without kicking and screaming.

[checkymcfold 0]

If I said that carbon emissions aren't antithetical to global warming, what would that mean?In your own words. Please.I see that you're not going down this garden path without kicking and screaming.

you are being fairly silly here, kiddo.i said, originally, as you quoted (twice), that the rising price of gas leading consumers to use less oil was a decent example of the free market not being directly opposed ("isn't antithetical") to environmental concerns. does this imply that the free market usually isn't the environment's best friend? yes, it does, and i meant to imply just that. because it's true.i then said, which you can call a qualifier or a dodo bird or whatever you want, that i care about the environment more than i care about economics, and that i'm willing to give on economic concerns in order to achieve an end that i find more important. this is also true, and does not change anything about the above statement.i think you need to rub one out, or have a drink or seven, or something.

[PokerJoeK 0]

Table 1. Summary of Federal Individual Income Tax Data, 2005 (Updated October 2007)

Number of Returns with Positive AGI

AGI ($ millions)

Income Taxes Paid ($ millions)

Group's Share of Total AGI

Group's Share of Income Taxes

Income Split Point

Average Tax Rate

All Taxpayers

132,611,637

$7,507,958

$934,703

100.00%

100.00%

-

12.45%

Top 1%

1,326,116

$1,591,711

$368,132

21.20%

39.38%

> $364,657

23.13%

Top 2-5%

5,304,466

$1,092,223

$189,627

14.55%

20.29%

17.36%

Top 5%

6,630,582

$2,683,934

$557,759

35.75%

59.67%

> $145,283

20.78%

Top 6-10%

6,630,582

$803,076

$99,326

10.70%

10.63%

12.37%

Top 10%

13,261,164

$3,487,010

$657,085

46.44%

70.30%

> $103,912

18.84%

Top 11-25%

19,891,745

$1,582,445

$146,687

21.08%

15.69%

9.27%

Top 25%

33,152,909

$5,069,455

$803,772

67.52%

85.99%

> $62,068

15.86%

Top 26-50%

33,152,909

$1,475,369

$102,256

19.65%

10.94%

6.93%

Top 50%

66,305,819

$6,544,824

$906,028

87.17%

96.93%

> $30,881

13.84%

Bottom 50%

66,305,818

963,134

$28,675

12.83%

3.07%

< $30,881

2.98%

Source: Internal Revenue Service

[TheCinciKid 0]

You are quite simply totally wrong about this. Its very easy to look at the IRS site and see what % the wealthiest are paying. You also have the recent tax return disclosures of Shrill and BHO. Guess what...they are all in the 30%-33% area.The truth is there are very few effective tax shelters left for individual income tax payers.

Reminds me the first time my account called me and told me to write a check to the IRS for $90,000 for additional taxes on top of what I had already paid.I said to him: I thought there were 'ways' to get out of taxes for rich people.He said: Nope, write the checkThe only people that don't pay taxes are people that invest solely in tax free municiple bonds, and people like Marc Rich who got a presidential pardon by Bill Clinton for a $48 million tax bill.

Guess I'll have to rethink some of my assumptions and the things I thought I knew.

[Danny Dingleberry 0]

hi guyz. food and oil prices are high outside of america too you know. America is not the only country in the universe.

[Balloon guy 158]

hi guyz. food and oil prices are high outside of america too you know. America is not the only country in the universe.

But it is the leader in economic trends.Not saying we are better, worse, or anything. But when America sneezes financially, the rest of the world catches cold.Mainly because the US dollar is the benchmark for all currency.And we have a really cool bird as a mascot. You guys need a mascot to be taken seriously.

[SlapStick 0]

But it is the leader in economic trends.Not as of this moment,just right now, saying we are better, worse, or anything. But when America sneezes financially, the rest of the world catches cold.Mainly because the US dollar is the benchmark for all currency.And we have a really cool bird as a mascot. You guys need a mascot to be taken seriously.

Thanks for setting the bench so low!I was at a funny Israeli jazz gig a few days. The crowd were pretty quiet so the singer started to try rile them up screaming "The Dollar isn't getting weaker! The Shekel is getting stronger!!!!!!!!"

[Nimue1995 1]

I guess I might be dumb here but why don't more people invest in a Roth IRA? To me it makes way more sense to pay the taxes now and not have to pay any further taxes on whatever is earned by that money then to put the money in tax-free and have to pay taxes at whatever rate when you withdraw it. I've got a regular IRA right now but I'm seriously considering opening a Roth. Perhaps one of you geniuses would be kind enough to explain the pros and cons of the Roth.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

LOLHe was talking about capital gains tax.You know the tax on money he paid taxes on then invested, then the C corp paid taxes on and sent him his dividend, then Buffet paid taxes again.That money. It's the highest taxed money there is.

I'm glad you already addressed this idiocy. Nothing gets me fired up more than people who have no idea how the tax system works just assuming the people who are wealthy pay lower taxes proportionately than they do. At the end of the day, our jacked up tax system is still designed with an attempt to reward people making for good decisions that are intellignt and benefit both themselves and the US Economy. It's not always done in the best way, but that's the intent. The loopholes have absolutely been closed significantly.Also, people that are rich are just like you in that they only pay taxes on what they make, not what they have. This is why so many of the tax "statistics" you hear are screwed up. "richest" does not mean "highest earners", but it's constantly presented to us as the richest paying the lowest taxes proportionally. If I have $2m and make 125,000 this year (absolutely reasonable and more common than you think for a prudent middle aged couple in the US)*, I pay the same taxes as someone who makes $125,000 and has negative net worth (unless you're offsetting a recent period loss, etc etc). Why punish the guy who invests his leftover money after paying those taxes instead of buying a new BMW?*read the millionaire next door, etc. A suprising proportion of the millionaires in this country, those "rich bastards" haven't made more than low six figures pretax ever in their lives.

[Balloon guy 158]

*read the millionaire next door, etc. A suprising proportion of the millionaires in this country, those "rich bastards" haven't made more than low six figures pretax ever in their lives.

Both that one and his other book were excellent reads. Really opens the eye to how money is made by people that make it.I have always invested in myself first after reading those books.

[Balloon guy 158]

I guess I might be dumb here but why don't more people invest in a Roth IRA? To me it makes way more sense to pay the taxes now and not have to pay any further taxes on whatever is earned by that money then to put the money in tax-free and have to pay taxes at whatever rate when you withdraw it. I've got a regular IRA right now but I'm seriously considering opening a Roth. Perhaps one of you geniuses would be kind enough to explain the pros and cons of the Roth.

Roth IRAs are fine investment toolsFor small amounts of money per year.But having my money tied up for 20 years doesn't fit my dream to one day be the Pirate King of the PacificYou need liquidity when you're a pirate