Ak Facing Allin From Active Player 200 Left

[Tosh 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)SB (t945)BB (t2715)UTG (t1150)UTG+1 (t490)MP1 (t1205)Tosh (t2527)MP3 (t1140)CO (t4395)Button (t1973)Preflop: Tosh is MP2 with A, K. 3 folds, Tosh raises to t150, 1 fold, CO calls t150, Button raises to t1973, 2 folds, Tosh calls t1823, CO raises to t3796, Tosh calls t554 (All-In).Flop: (t8371) J, 8, Q(3 players, 1 all-in)Turn: (t8371) 7(3 players, 1 all-in)River: (t8371) 8(3 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: t7102200 left this is for top 5 stack if i hit the players have been two most active at table is this standard call ??

[Tosh 0]

*** SHOW DOWN ***toshfcp: shows [Ad Ks](a pair of Eights)TmyMaddox08: shows [Ac Qd] (two pair, Queens and Eights)toshfcp said, "omg"TmyMaddox08 collected 1108 from side potWolfe4Heismn: shows [Ah Qh] (two pair, Queens and Eights)TmyMaddox08 collected 2997 from main potWolfe4Heismn collected 2997 from main pot

[DonkSlayer 1]

Just fine all the way around. Nh and tough result.

[copernicus 0]

No, I dont think the call is standard. You prefer to be the pusher with AK, and here youre calling and you have another player behind you still to act. Youre racing from behind, possibly with some of your outs gone, or dominated by AA, KK. Its clearly a gamble that some would take, though.

[KoRnholio 2]

Looks fine, although the last time I was in a similar spot the massive overbet push was KK and gg me.

[DonkSlayer 1]

No, I dont think the call is standard. You prefer to be the pusher with AK, and here youre calling and you have another player behind you still to act. Youre racing from behind, possibly with some of your outs gone, or dominated by AA, KK. Its clearly a gamble that some would take, though.

Copernicus, my aim tonite is not to argue with you on each thread, sorry.We absolutely, positively instacall both. If we have a tight image then we're a little worried that we're flipping at best with the original pusher, BUT 1. villain could be running a squeeze and have a smaller pair than expected and 2. after other villain repops allin, we're getting a brazillion to 1. I think we're getting raised by villain 2 by KK/AA/AK before we get to the button's push, don't you? Meh I think we have 1-2 overs and we're dominating someone, most of the time.

[copernicus 0]

Copernicus, my aim tonite is not to argue with you on each thread, sorry.We absolutely, positively instacall both. If we have a tight image then we're a little worried that we're flipping at best with the original pusher, BUT 1. villain could be running a squeeze and have a smaller pair than expected and 2. after other villain repops allin, we're getting a brazillion to 1. I think we're getting raised by villain 2 by KK/AA/AK before we get to the button's push, don't you? Meh I think we have 1-2 overs and we're dominating someone, most of the time.

If there were any "right answers" forums wouldnt be needed! It may be stakes dependent again. At higher buyins a call here is very marginal.

[Sheiky 0]

If there were any "right answers" forums wouldnt be needed! It may be stakes dependent again. At higher buyins a call here is very marginal.

Is it really though? If you're talking 1k tourneys then i think the average intelligent player could be shoving a fairly wide range from the button, and in tournaments like the $216 mil the field standard is so bad that people can be doing this with w/e anyway. I think your logic makes sense, but looking in slightly more detail i think at higher levels the circumstances might even make this more of a all. This is obviously speculation though.On the hand, nyeh, i rarely fold AK here for 45BBs. I rarely fold AK at all. I think calling is best though.

[cheesies 0]

I call. I think the times he shows up wth AA/KK are outweighed by the times he shows up with AQ/AJ/KQ/random junk. Obviously the CO is the main worry, but if he's been active, he could have a wide range of hands. Once he pushes, you clearly can't fold.

[copernicus 0]

I call. I think the times he shows up wth AA/KK are outweighed by the times he shows up with AQ/AJ/KQ/random junk. Obviously the CO is the main worry, but if he's been active, he could have a wide range of hands. Once he pushes, you clearly can't fold.

Still dont like it. A non-desperate stack raises all-in vs a raiser and caller, his range should be TT+,AK. If you get HU vs him youre a 60:40 dog. Add in AQ and its a coin flip and you still have to worry about the big stack behind you.

[cheesies 0]

Still dont like it. A non-desperate stack raises all-in vs a raiser and caller, his range should be TT+,AK. If you get HU vs him youre a 60:40 dog. Add in AQ and its a coin flip and you still have to worry about the big stack behind you.

I agree his range should be that, but I don't think adding AQ/99 is unreasonable in a $10 mtt. Also, lots of players will think this is a good spot for a squeeze/will occasionaly just turn up with random junk. We need 42% equity to call, so if we put his range at soley TT+,AK then we're nearly there. I think we are more like 50:50 vs his range, which gives us better odds, and this makes up for the fact that the CO is behind us, and will have occasionally limped behind with a hand worth calling 2 allins with. It's close, and by no means a standard call. As sheiky says, I just find it hard to lay down AK preflop for 45bbs in a $10 mtt. I tend to err on the side of 'gambling' for a larger stack than the more conservative (sensible?) alternative anyway.

[copernicus 0]

At least there is some agreement that its close.BTW am I mis-reading the comments on AK with 45bbs as implying that 45bbs is fairly short and you want to get it all in? In tourney play 45bbs is pretty deep and far from taking wide variance play territory. With a standard 3bb raise and 2 callers including the bb the flop stack is 9.5 bb and you have 42 behind. A 2/3 pot bet called by one player brings the pot to about 25 with 36 behind for the turn, a 1/2 pot bet on the turn brings the river pot to 50 and 24 behind for a natural 1/2 pot river value bet. With one PF caller its even deeper than that.I have a feeling that smaller buy-in play is breeding some impatience that wont serve well at higher limits.

[Sheiky 0]

At least there is some agreement that its close.BTW am I mis-reading the comments on AK with 45bbs as implying that 45bbs is fairly short and you want to get it all in? In tourney play 45bbs is pretty deep and far from taking wide variance play territory. With a standard 3bb raise and 2 callers including the bb the flop stack is 9.5 bb and you have 42 behind. A 2/3 pot bet called by one player brings the pot to about 25 with 36 behind for the turn, a 1/2 pot bet on the turn brings the river pot to 50 and 24 behind for a natural 1/2 pot river value bet. With one PF caller its even deeper than that.I have a feeling that smaller buy-in play is breeding some impatience that wont serve well at higher limits.

Well i don't think i've ever going to be raise/folding AK to one opponent in a cash game either, and even though 45BBs is decent for tournaments, i still think it's short to be folding AK.I was thinking about your last comment a lot before, and i guess i can't really tell untill i move up to higher limits and see how the ranges differ etc.

[donk5 0]

Well i don't think i've ever going to be raise/folding AK to one opponent in a cash game either, and even though 45BBs is decent for tournaments, i still think it's short to be folding AK.I was thinking about your last comment a lot before, and i guess i can't really tell untill i move up to higher limits and see how the ranges differ etc.

... wow

[cheesies 0]

At least there is some agreement that its close.BTW am I mis-reading the comments on AK with 45bbs as implying that 45bbs is fairly short and you want to get it all in? In tourney play 45bbs is pretty deep and far from taking wide variance play territory. With a standard 3bb raise and 2 callers including the bb the flop stack is 9.5 bb and you have 42 behind. A 2/3 pot bet called by one player brings the pot to about 25 with 36 behind for the turn, a 1/2 pot bet on the turn brings the river pot to 50 and 24 behind for a natural 1/2 pot river value bet. With one PF caller its even deeper than that.I have a feeling that smaller buy-in play is breeding some impatience that wont serve well at higher limits.

I'm not saying 45bbs is short, just too short to be folding ak pre, unless in extreme circumstances. And it's true, I might play this differently in a $100 mtt. But this is a $10 mtt, so we should look at how to play it in this situation. Side-tracking and talking about how to play it at other levels is fine, but to respond to the hand in question all things must be considered, including buyin. In $10 mtts, I think you could profitably NEVER fold AK preflop, regardless of action.

[MovingIn 0]

AK is a frequently overrated hand PF, whether suited or not. People frequently get all their money in with it PF early in tourneys, which to me is like shoving all your money in PF at the 25/50 level with AQ or AJ. We're drawing to a few outs vs a PP, and at best, we dominate if villain is shoving AQ or a lower ace, but usually we have the high card in a race, and even dominating, all a villain has to do to send us to the rail is pair his lower kicker. I'd be dicey with putting it all-in PF this early with AK vs one player, let alone two. I can understand doing it late when we're getting short, but not at the 25/50 level with 55% of a 360 player field still left.Once we get two shoves behind to our PF raise, forcing us to commit all our chips to call, we should probably get out and let the donkeys tussle. I guess if you don't mind tossing a buy in to flip for a triple up, then go ahead, but ultimately, our equity if we do triple up still isn't all that great this early. Look for stronger edges.

[Berwatchey 0]

something about the push doesnt sit right. i dont know what yet, maby its preference. but against the average player i know i can find better than a race to get my money in the pot. i would say that the same would be true for you. one of them likely has a pair. and the other you prolly have dominated. but since the one you have dominated has some of your outs...isint that bad?i will say that since it's a tourney and the blinds are low right now you didnt need to risk your chips yet. seems like impatience. i'd say fold and let them tusslel. if they turn over worse hands its no biggie. now you know for sure what they would be pushing with and can take the chips from the winner later on with the info you gained.i'm a little more conservative tho.

[DelftDragons 0]

The consensus is to call all around?I think you would be overplaying A/K. Your racing and are a slight dog to any pair.You do that three times in a tournie against semi equal stacks and you'll be gone, since you will losse one of the three. Even if the raise is with something like J/Qs you'll only be about 60/40 in the lead. The only hands that will give good odds is if your up against A/X.I really don't like this play since with 50 blinds and a stack of 2500 you can pick a lot better spots to play from.