chgocubs99 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I prob just ship pre, but you can never ever r/f there obv Link to post Share on other sites
Potsie P 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Not sure why, as an almost exclusive MTT and SNG player, I haven't visited this thread more, but I just wanted to say I have been reading it recently and have really enjoyed the hand discussions. If you guys don't mind, I'll lurk awhile longer and start posting as I get up to speed in here. I'm pretty much a microstakes player who doesn't always get a lot of opportunities to play, but I take the game seriously and consider myself a student of it, so I'll contribute whatever I can...Thanks in advance,Pots Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Not sure why, as an almost exclusive MTT and SNG player, I haven't visited this thread more, but I just wanted to say I have been reading it recently and have really enjoyed the hand discussions. If you guys don't mind, I'll lurk awhile longer and start posting as I get up to speed in here. I'm pretty much a microstakes player who doesn't always get a lot of opportunities to play, but I take the game seriously and consider myself a student of it, so I'll contribute whatever I can...Thanks in advance,PotsYou have to go through an initiation process first before we start answering any of your questions first. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 6 handed is a shove, I don't read hh's very well. full table I'm mucking 6 handed shove all day.Ya, didn't see 6 handed part either, I like shove/raise/fold then I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites
Potsie P 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You have to go through an initiation process first before we start answering any of your questions first.Point taken. Twice.Damn, and here I thought finishing 5th in the Vegas FCP event last summer and making the Elite 8 in the HU for FCP Sigs Challenge would give me a high enough credit score.So what is it? Deal the pain. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 And to be honest, I don't think the discussion was THAT good. People brought up a bunch of numbers and that was it, then some guy named Deeb said he would call, then like everyone afterwards said ok. I actually thought the discussion going on in the our Sunday thread was a whole heck of a lot better. In ours you actually had some multi level thinking.Looking over at the 2+2 discussion on the hand NNB, it seems that everyone is basing it on math and what range villain could be pushing with. I agree that math should be taken into account when making decisions, but it also should be the end all, be all either. Like I said in the Sunday thread, because of your shove with the JJ, it could be possible that he could be doing this with a very strong hand, even AA or KK because he knows you will call and no one in their right mind would ever shove 35+bbs PF with those hands, right? I mean that's the thing with poker, to throw your opponents off and trying to get max value for your hand. I mean, when you said he shoved 35bbs, I was like what kind of hand could he shoving here? Would he seriously shove a premium? If I knew that you would call off with a hand like 77-JJ after our previous hand, you better believe that I would shove 35BBs with AA or KK or QQ because I know you would call because of previous history.This might be me being stubborn here, but I think calling off 35BBs with 55 is not good, no matter what the math or the range we give the villain. At this stage of a tourney it's more about increasing your chip stack by stealing blinds and antes, no?I don't know who Deeb is, yeah I can probably google him, and I don't read/post at 2+2, but I don't think we always have to make decisions and say, "This is the right decision because Deeb and or 2+2 or because the math said it is the right decision." I think we always have to question things even if everyone else is saying one thing, this is poker not every decision is going to be the right decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Potsie P 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Looking over at the 2+2 discussion on the hand NNB, it seems that everyone is basing it on math and what range villain could be pushing with. I agree that math should be taken into account when making decisions, but it also should be the end all, be all either. Like I said in the Sunday thread, because of your shove with the JJ, it could be possible that he could be doing this with a very strong hand, even AA or KK because he knows you will call and no one in their right mind would ever shove 35+bbs PF with those hands, right? I mean that's the thing with poker, to throw your opponents off and trying to get max value for your hand. I mean, when you said he shoved 35bbs, I was like what kind of hand could he shoving here? Would he seriously shove a premium? If I knew that you would call off with a hand like 77-JJ after our previous hand, you better believe that I would shove 35BBs with AA or KK or QQ because I know you would call because of previous history.This might be me being stubborn here, but I think calling off 35BBs with 55 is not good, no matter what the math or the range we give the villain. At this stage of a tourney it's more about increasing your chip stack by stealing blinds and antes, no?I don't know who Deeb is, yeah I can probably google him, and I don't read/post at 2+2, but I don't think we always have to make decisions and say, "This is the right decision because Deeb and or 2+2 or because the math said it is the right decision." I think we always have to question things even if everyone else is saying one thing, this is poker not every decision is going to be the right decision.This is a, if not the, key to winning at poker IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 This is a, if not the, key to winning at poker IMO.Who said you can post?!? But you bolded one of my posts, so I'll let it go.And welcome. Link to post Share on other sites
armen13 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I don't know who Deeb isYou've never heard of Freddy Deeb? Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You've never heard of Freddy Deeb?Him yes, this isn't the same one though is it? Link to post Share on other sites
ncperrotta069 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Looking over at the 2+2 discussion on the hand NNB, it seems that everyone is basing it on math and what range villain could be pushing with. I agree that math should be taken into account when making decisions, but it also should be the end all, be all either. Like I said in the Sunday thread, because of your shove with the JJ, it could be possible that he could be doing this with a very strong hand, even AA or KK because he knows you will call and no one in their right mind would ever shove 35+bbs PF with those hands, right? I mean that's the thing with poker, to throw your opponents off and trying to get max value for your hand. I mean, when you said he shoved 35bbs, I was like what kind of hand could he shoving here? Would he seriously shove a premium? If I knew that you would call off with a hand like 77-JJ after our previous hand, you better believe that I would shove 35BBs with AA or KK or QQ because I know you would call because of previous history.This might be me being stubborn here, but I think calling off 35BBs with 55 is not good, no matter what the math or the range we give the villain. At this stage of a tourney it's more about increasing your chip stack by stealing blinds and antes, no?I don't know who Deeb is, yeah I can probably google him, and I don't read/post at 2+2, but I don't think we always have to make decisions and say, "This is the right decision because Deeb and or 2+2 or because the math said it is the right decision." I think we always have to question things even if everyone else is saying one thing, this is poker not every decision is going to be the right decision.really good player and puts in a ton of volume and hands#1 player on stars TLB for 2008 and i think #2 in 2007 (correct me if i wrong but i think he came 2nd to stein maybe 1st?)#14 on stars OPR Link to post Share on other sites
armen13 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Him yes, this isn't the same one though is it?They are related I have heard (no sw) but not sure... Link to post Share on other sites
ncperrotta069 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 They are related I have heard (sw) but not sure...fyp Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Meh, tbh, when I play online I don't really care who is at my table. I just want to know how they play, tight, loose or whatever. I mean, I may never sit down with that guy anyway in an online tourney anyway.And just an fyi, I'm not trying to come off as cocky that I don't care who's at my table, that's just how I am, I don't really care if they are a top online player. I'm pretty sure that some people here who know me can attest to that I just play the way I play no matter what.Don't get me wrong, I would take advice from any top online pro, but that doesn't mean it can't be questioned. Link to post Share on other sites
Potsie P 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Who said you can post?!? But you bolded one of my posts, so I'll let it go.And welcome.LOL, good to see my plan worked, and thx. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Looking over at the 2+2 discussion on the hand NNB, it seems that everyone is basing it on math and what range villain could be pushing with. I agree that math should be taken into account when making decisions, but it also should be the end all, be all either. Like I said in the Sunday thread, because of your shove with the JJ, it could be possible that he could be doing this with a very strong hand, even AA or KK because he knows you will call and no one in their right mind would ever shove 35+bbs PF with those hands, right? I mean that's the thing with poker, to throw your opponents off and trying to get max value for your hand. I mean, when you said he shoved 35bbs, I was like what kind of hand could he shoving here? Would he seriously shove a premium? If I knew that you would call off with a hand like 77-JJ after our previous hand, you better believe that I would shove 35BBs with AA or KK or QQ because I know you would call because of previous history.This might be me being stubborn here, but I think calling off 35BBs with 55 is not good, no matter what the math or the range we give the villain. At this stage of a tourney it's more about increasing your chip stack by stealing blinds and antes, no?I don't know who Deeb is, yeah I can probably google him, and I don't read/post at 2+2, but I don't think we always have to make decisions and say, "This is the right decision because Deeb and or 2+2 or because the math said it is the right decision." I think we always have to question things even if everyone else is saying one thing, this is poker not every decision is going to be the right decision.I'm not even a huge math guy, but it all does come down to math. Even when we don't realize it, all the logic in a hand or in a strategy can be quantified to an equation, as long as you can get the intuitive aspect of putting your opponent on a viable range you can def assign a probability and decide the EV in a certain play. Also in the Sunday 500 it's going to be tough to steal blinds that often, most of your opponents are going to be competent and are going to adjust to your frequencies making it hard on you to pick up easy chips especially the way poker is evolving these days. Obviously thats not absolute but in comparison to a lot of other tournies generally its going to be harder to pick up dead money and your edges are going to be smaller generally.And I agree with Gallo everyone should be questioned in poker and in life I think questioning everything is the way to go, obv I give people with strong creds a little more merit but still no one is golden all the time. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'm not even a huge math guy, but it all does come down to math. Even when we don't realize it, all the logic in a hand or in a strategy can be quantified to an equation, as long as you can get the intuitive aspect of putting your opponent on a viable range you can def assign a probability and decide the EV in a certain play. Also in the Sunday 500 it's going to be tough to steal blinds that often, most of your opponents are going to be competent and are going to adjust to your frequencies making it hard on you to pick up easy chips especially the way poker is evolving these days. Obviously thats not absolute but in comparison to a lot of other tournies generally its going to be harder to pick up dead money and your edges are going to be smaller generally.And I agree with Gallo everyone should be questioned in poker and in life I think questioning everything is the way to go, obv I give people with strong creds a little more merit but still no one is golden all the time.If I ever sit at a table with you and I have like 30bbs, I'm just gonna open/shove with AA and hope you call. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 ez fold right?Full Tilt Poker Game #10083431336: Daily Double - A (75636908), Table 16 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:19:43 ET - 2009/01/16Seat 1: socal supastar (4,785)Seat 2: KOchris (1,410)Seat 3: Shadoes Run (7,580)Seat 4: CoolRbydalake (2,850)Seat 5: PaulyB87 (1,355)Seat 6: tc1106 (5,700)Seat 7: Qui_dolores (1,070)Seat 8: GalloFX (6,575)Seat 9: wild-west-3 (3,390)KOchris posts the small blind of 50Shadoes Run posts the big blind of 100The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GalloFX [Qd Ah]CoolRbydalake calls 100PaulyB87 calls 100tc1106 foldsQui_dolores foldsGalloFX raises to 400wild-west-3 foldssocal supastar foldsKOchris foldsShadoes Run calls 300CoolRbydalake calls 300PaulyB87 folds*** FLOP *** [6h 5h As]Shadoes Run bets 7,180, and is all inCoolRbydalake calls 2,450, and is all inGalloFX has 15 seconds left to actGalloFX has requested TIMEGalloFX ????? Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I'd gues he has something like 7h8h there. Caller, it depends on how quickly he called.......but I'm a guess 66/55, may A6/A5. Idk if that makes it a call or fold. Prob a fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 phew and lolFull Tilt Poker Game #10084358175: $28,000 Guarantee (76404093), Table 94 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:17:28 ET - 2009/01/16Seat 1: bettyfranklins (6,177)Seat 2: GalloFX (3,920)Seat 3: MThorn2000lbs (5,278)Seat 4: thang911 (1,990)Seat 5: steelup21 (3,855)Seat 6: LiquidRabbit (3,420)Seat 7: queentilt83 (2,445)Seat 8: coldharv (7,660)Seat 9: coby30 (4,387)GalloFX posts the small blind of 50MThorn2000lbs posts the big blind of 100The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GalloFX [7h 5h]thang911 foldssteelup21 foldsLiquidRabbit foldsqueentilt83 foldscoldharv foldscoby30 has 15 seconds left to actcoby30 raises to 250bettyfranklins calls 250GalloFX raises to 1,000MThorn2000lbs calls 900coby30 foldsbettyfranklins folds*** FLOP *** [9d 7c 9s]GalloFX bets 2,920, and is all inMThorn2000lbs has 15 seconds left to actMThorn2000lbs calls 2,920GalloFX shows [7h 5h]MThorn2000lbs shows [Ks Ah]*** TURN *** [9d 7c 9s] [5d]*** RIVER *** [9d 7c 9s 5d] [2c]GalloFX shows two pair, Nines and SevensMThorn2000lbs shows a pair of NinesGalloFX wins the pot (8,340) with two pair, Nines and SevensThe blinds are now 60/120*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 8,340 | Rake 0Board: [9d 7c 9s 5d 2c]Seat 1: bettyfranklins (button) folded before the FlopSeat 2: GalloFX (small blind) showed [7h 5h] and won (8,340) with two pair, Nines and SevensSeat 3: MThorn2000lbs (big blind) showed [Ks Ah] and lost with a pair of NinesSeat 4: thang911 didn't bet (folded)Seat 5: steelup21 didn't bet (folded)Seat 6: LiquidRabbit didn't bet (folded)Seat 7: queentilt83 didn't bet (folded)Seat 8: coldharv didn't bet (folded)Seat 9: coby30 folded before the FlopEdit, here's the chat:MThorn2000lbs: nice raiseMThorn2000lbs: hahahaGalloFX: nice callcoldharv: ak in bb. what more can u want Link to post Share on other sites
chgocubs99 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Meh, tbh, when I play online I don't really care who is at my table. I just want to know how they play, tight, loose or whatever. I mean, I may never sit down with that guy anyway in an online tourney anyway.And just an fyi, I'm not trying to come off as cocky that I don't care who's at my table, that's just how I am, I don't really care if they are a top online player. I'm pretty sure that some people here who know me can attest to that I just play the way I play no matter what.Don't get me wrong, I would take advice from any top online pro, but that doesn't mean it can't be questioned.This is true, but you have to be careful with it. Most people are stubborn by nature, and they have a hard time adjusting their thought process. Anyone can say "call" or "fold". If you can't, then there is no point in asking questions in the first place. I posted the AJ hand before that I thought was a reshove. What makes sense to me makes sense now, you have a supernova iso'ing when he has about 12 BB's, and you are sitting there with AJ and 50 BB's. I thought it was a shove. Everyone here says it's a fold. I need to start taking a quick look at whether my thought process is correct or not. I can justify it to myself but that won't help me improve. Oh yea, and then you have to go out and actually execute too.It's sort of like setting ranges on a hand. Deeb is going to be right more often than I am right. It's a fact. Yeah, it's possible he could be wrong this time. But he's going to be wrong a lot less of a percentage of the time then I am. To say "I really don't care who it is, he's wrong on this one" is the wrong approach. You should be asking probing questions to his thought process more than you should be trying to pick holes in it. You have to consider the source when someone is giving you information. Someone who is a lifelong loser in tournaments but has an amazing vocabulary, and is a strong debater can come in here and probably make a case for pretty much any action at any time in most of the borderline spots we talk about. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is true, but you have to be careful with it. Most people are stubborn by nature, and they have a hard time adjusting their thought process. Anyone can say "call" or "fold". If you can't, then there is no point in asking questions in the first place. I posted the AJ hand before that I thought was a reshove. What makes sense to me makes sense now, you have a supernova iso'ing when he has about 12 BB's, and you are sitting there with AJ and 50 BB's. I thought it was a shove. Everyone here says it's a fold. I need to start taking a quick look at whether my thought process is correct or not. I can justify it to myself but that won't help me improve. Oh yea, and then you have to go out and actually execute too.It's sort of like setting ranges on a hand. Deeb is going to be right more often than I am right. It's a fact. Yeah, it's possible he could be wrong this time. But he's going to be wrong a lot less of a percentage of the time then I am. To say "I really don't care who it is, he's wrong on this one" is the wrong approach. You should be asking probing questions to his thought process more than you should be trying to pick holes in it. You have to consider the source when someone is giving you information. Someone who is a lifelong loser in tournaments but has an amazing vocabulary, and is a strong debater can come in here and probably make a case for pretty much any action at any time in most of the borderline spots we talk about.I totally understand that and I have no problem listening and adjusting. I guess what gets to me is that when an online top pro says one thing, it's almost as if that is the end of discussion. It's like no one even questions it. Sometimes I think that people aren't willing to think outside the box. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is the 2nd time he's done this. First time I folded my garbage, but this time I insta-snap called his dumbass.lol idiotFull Tilt Poker Game #10084706030: $28,000 Guarantee (76404093), Table 94 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:39:18 ET - 2009/01/16Seat 1: bettyfranklins (7,162)Seat 2: GalloFX (12,490)Seat 3: ScubaSteve393 (7,320)Seat 4: Ant2fine (4,883)Seat 5: steelup21 (3,595)Seat 6: LiquidRabbit (3,540)Seat 7: tingbaby (4,100)Seat 8: coldharv (5,480)Seat 9: coby30 (4,494)GalloFX posts the small blind of 100ScubaSteve393 posts the big blind of 200The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GalloFX [9d 9s]Ant2fine foldssteelup21 calls 200LiquidRabbit foldstingbaby foldscoldharv calls 200coby30 foldsbettyfranklins foldsGalloFX raises to 1,000ScubaSteve393 foldssteelup21 foldscoldharv raises to 5,480, and is all inGalloFX calls 4,480coldharv shows [Ad 7d]GalloFX shows [9d 9s]*** FLOP *** [2d Kh As]*** TURN *** [2d Kh As] [7s]*** RIVER *** [2d Kh As 7s] [8s]coldharv shows two pair, Aces and SevensGalloFX shows a pair of Ninescoldharv wins the pot (11,360) with two pair, Aces and Sevens*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 11,360 | Rake 0Board: [2d Kh As 7s 8s]Seat 1: bettyfranklins (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 2: GalloFX (small blind) showed [9d 9s] and lost with a pair of NinesSeat 3: ScubaSteve393 (big blind) folded before the FlopSeat 4: Ant2fine didn't bet (folded)Seat 5: steelup21 folded before the FlopSeat 6: LiquidRabbit didn't bet (folded)Seat 7: tingbaby didn't bet (folded)Seat 8: coldharv showed [Ad 7d] and won (11,360) with two pair, Aces and SevensSeat 9: coby30 didn't bet (folded) Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This player just moved to my table.Full Tilt Poker Game #10084818054: $28,000 Guarantee (76404093), Table 94 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:46:26 ET - 2009/01/16Seat 1: bettyfranklins (10,145)Seat 2: GalloFX (8,410)Seat 3: ScubaSteve393 (6,620)Seat 4: big fish pond (4,930)Seat 5: steelup21 (4,295)Seat 6: LiquidRabbit (3,040)Seat 7: tingbaby (5,600)Seat 8: coldharv (10,960)Seat 9: coby30 (3,994)bettyfranklins posts the small blind of 100GalloFX posts the big blind of 200The button is in seat #9*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GalloFX [6d 6h]ScubaSteve393 foldsbig fish pond raises to 600steelup21 foldsLiquidRabbit foldstingbaby foldscoldharv foldscoby30 foldsbettyfranklins foldsGalloFX calls 400*** FLOP *** [7s 5s 2h]GalloFX checksbig fish pond bets 600GalloFX raises to 2,200big fish pond raises to 4,330, and is all inGalloFX FOLD?Is a fold bad after the raise now? Link to post Share on other sites
chgocubs99 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Is a fold bad after the raise now?That would be the worst fold ever IMO Link to post Share on other sites
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