Lebron Is The Mvp

[keith crime 8]

He just dominated Kobe in the 4th quarter in LAThe other day he got hurt and hit three straight three pointers in the 4th quarter and made an amazing last second drive to beat the Trail BlazersTonight he's out and the Cavs are losing by twenty to Seattle at half=time - I think this will make the Cavs 0-7 without him this year

[Vinnie_Terranova 5]

I would argue, but after watching both those games you mentioned I cant.KG or Kobe will prolly win though.

[Cappy37 0]

He's having a simply incredible year. He's hands down been the best on the offensive side of the ball this season. Does that translate to MVP? We shall see.....This could finally be the year they hand it to Kobe, too.. Never rule that out. Remember Kobe? The other guy doing it with smoke and mirrors singlehandedly?

[keith crime 8]

He's having a simply incredible year. He's hands down been the best on the offensive side of the ball this season. Does that translate to MVP? We shall see.....This could finally be the year they hand it to Kobe, too.. Never rule that out. Remember Kobe? The other guy doing it with smoke and mirrors singlehandedly?

kobes great but the cavs have beaten the lakers 5 times in a row and lebron guarded kobe in the 4th and scored 14 pts is leading the nba in 4th points and held kobe 1-6

[Jadaki 0]

Right now Chris Paul is ahead of him IMO, his team is doing more in a tougher division and he is the catalyst for it. I expect KG will end up winning it though.

[Cappy37 0]

kobes great but the cavs have beaten the lakers 5 times in a row and lebron guarded kobe in the 4th and scored 14 pts is leading the nba in 4th points and held kobe 1-6

Congratulations on being the first person ever to use "head to head" isolated incidents in an MVP debate?Lebron didn't guard Kobe man to man, Lebron funnelled Kobe into help defense while 4 Lakers simultaneously picked their nose, also known as the Laker "2 minute offense" in crunchtime. You take Lebron off the Cavs, they still manage 20-25 wins in the East. You take Kobe off the Lakers and the Sonics and Twolves have 2 extra wins apiece right now. It's not even close in the "most valuable" department. Dear God, why am I defending Kobe Bryant on a message board? Don't we have Laker fans for this?

Right now Chris Paul is ahead of him IMO, his team is doing more in a tougher division and he is the catalyst for it. I expect KG will end up winning it though.

Proving once again that the only thing that can defeat the East Coast Bias is the Eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast Coast Bias. ;)In all seriousness thought, KG took a hopeless situation and is turning it into a NBA Finals candidate, Kobe and Lebron, despite being ridiculously talented individuals, and hoisting their teams far enough out of the lottery to continue to be average and out by the 2nd round. This is why KG probably wins it. Nothing makes the MVP more meaningless than the fact that Karl Malone took it off Jordan's hands one year. It's become increasingly ridiculous every year since.

[CaneBrain 95]

Congratulations on being the first person ever to use "head to head" isolated incidents in an MVP debate?Lebron didn't guard Kobe man to man, Lebron funnelled Kobe into help defense while 4 Lakers simultaneously picked their nose, also known as the Laker "2 minute offense" in crunchtime. You take Lebron off the Cavs, they still manage 20-25 wins in the East. You take Kobe off the Lakers and the Sonics and Twolves have 2 extra wins apiece right now. It's not even close in the "most valuable" department. Dear God, why am I defending Kobe Bryant on a message board? Don't we have Laker fans for this?Proving once again that the only thing that can defeat the East Coast Bias is the Eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast Coast Bias. ;)In all seriousness thought, KG took a hopeless situation and is turning it into a NBA Finals candidate, Kobe and Lebron, despite being ridiculously talented individuals, and hoisting their teams far enough out of the lottery to continue to be average and out by the 2nd round. This is why KG probably wins it. Nothing makes the MVP more meaningless than the fact that Karl Malone took it off Jordan's hands one year. It's become increasingly ridiculous every year since.

could not disagree more with the first part. well I agree deciding MVP based on one heads up contest is stupid. But really, you think Bron has the better supporting cast? Even before the Gasol trade today, Kobe had the MUCH MUCH better supporting cast. Hands down. You take Lebron off the Cavs and they have the same record as the Heat. Odom and Bynum are great players. Walton and Fisher are above average NBA players. Who is great on the Cavs after Lebron? No one. Who is above average? Maybe Big Z, maybe Gibson. Certainly not Hughes anymore.I think Lebron is far and away the MVP this year....though it is hilarious Kobe has not won one by now. He probably deserved it one of the years they gave it to Steve Nash. White guy bias trumps east coast bias everytime pardner.

[Cappy37 0]

could not disagree more with the first part. well I agree deciding MVP based on one heads up contest is stupid. But really, you think Bron has the better supporting cast? Even before the Gasol trade today, Kobe had the MUCH MUCH better supporting cast. Hands down. You take Lebron off the Cavs and they have the same record as the Heat.

Thanks for posting this, I hadn't checked espn.com today.. wow that's a huge trade. Memphis should have anti-dumping sanctions imposed on them. If it was a fantasy league, the pseudo-Stern would kick the Grizzly owner out of the league on principle alone.

Odom and Bynum are great players. Walton and Fisher are above average NBA players. Who is great on the Cavs after Lebron? No one. Who is above average? Maybe Big Z, maybe Gibson. Certainly not Hughes anymore.

I'm talking more about conference than talent thought. Bynum + Odom are solid based upon being on the court with Kobe. The Nash point is interesting, because the emergence of Bynum + non-sucktitude of Odom actually give Kobe the "Makes Teammates better" vote. Lebron has not made *anyone* better since he suited up. Lebron has less to work with, but he dosn't even get the minimum out of what he has.Back to conference though: MVP just plain comes out of the West unless the Celtics get back on that 70 win-type pace. The West just owns the MVP, and the Lakers could legitimately be a 9 win team *in the west* without Kobe (until today zomg). Cavs just fade into obscurity in the East without Lebron.

White guy bias trumps east coast bias everytime pardner.

Touche.

[Jadaki 0]

I think Lebron is far and away the MVP this year....though it is hilarious Kobe has not won one by now. He probably deserved it one of the years they gave it to Steve Nash. White guy bias trumps east coast bias everytime pardner.

I disagree.One of the years Nash one it it was completely between him and Shaq, Kobe wasn't even in the picture and Shaq was doing the same old thing on the same team while Nash turned the Suns into a contender overnight. There is a reason everyone that plays with Nash has career years. Even the Lakers fans here think Odom is better without Kobe in the lineup.

[keith crime 8]

The Cavs are 0-7 without lebron this year and haven't come close to winning a game without him

[El Guapo 8]

Wow Lakers stole Gasol

[keith crime 8]

Wow Lakers stole Gasol

getting a dollar for kwame would be a steal

[Jadaki 0]

The Cavs are 0-7 without lebron this year and haven't come close to winning a game without him

That just means he should stop missing games.

[Cappy37 0]

The Cavs are 0-7 without lebron this year and haven't come close to winning a game without him

The Cavs are 25-13 with Lebron.. The Lakers are like 28-15 with Kobe. Complete Wash. The Cavs are a meager 12-12 against the Leastern Conference, too, if we're throwing out stats at random.

getting a dollar for kwame would be a steal

QFT. So would pinning a dollar to his back, giving him a bus ticket, and wishing him the best of luck. lol.

[keith crime 8]

The Cavs are 25-13 with Lebron.. The Lakers are like 28-15 with Kobe. Complete Wash. The Cavs are a meager 12-12 against the Leastern Conference, too, if we're throwing out stats at random. ;)QFT. So would pinning a dollar to his back, giving him a bus ticket, and wishing him the best of luck. lol.

that's a decieving stat - this year's been the first time he's had any real injuries and they've been terrible without himin past years their w/l was very good without him because they'd rest him when he was beat up and they were playing someone horriblethey got blown out by seattle last night without him - he's been the entire team this yeari almost wish he was playing for someone else so i could see what he could do with teammates

[Jadaki 0]

i almost wish he was playing for someone else so i could see what he could do with teammates

The only team I'd be interested in seeing him play on right now would be Phoenix, maybe NO.

[Cappy37 0]

i almost wish he was playing for someone else so i could see what he could do with teammates

That's some strong support for your original ascertation, btw:We'd *all* love to see what Lebron could do with players around him.In fact, I challenge anyone to name a team in the league that isn't a supreme upgrade for surrounding talent for Lebron.

[Jadaki 0]

In fact, I challenge anyone to name a team in the league that isn't a supreme upgrade for surrounding talent for Lebron.

Seattle, NY, & Memphis come to mind.

[Cappy37 0]

Seattle, NY, & Memphis come to mind.

This thread is becoming far more entertaining than these debates normally go over.Seattle: Collison, Durant, Green, Ridinour, Wilcox, WallyWorld, Kurt Thomas, Earl Watson.NY: Marbury, Crawford, Randolph, Curry, Lee, Robinson, Richardson, Balkman.Memphis: Navarro, Conley Jr, Gay, Darko, Miller, Warrick..I think you can make a case for all 3 "teams" being vastly superior than the Cavs.You can cross Durant off Seattle's roster,[insert whomever you consider NY's strongest link] off of NY's roster, and Gasol (lol done!) off of Memphis's roster. The resulting teams are still heads and shoulders better than the Cav's without Lebron.And yeah, I do realize I'm switching to Keith's side on this midstream, but what fun is debate if you can't actually sway yourself the other way after doing in depth research? ;)I think the team we've truly forgotten has been the Heat. You take Dwade off of the Heat and compare that cast to Cleveland's, and you finally got a well-balanced jv girls' game goin' on.

[Jadaki 0]

This thread is becoming far more entertaining than these debates normally go over.Seattle: Collison, Durant, Green, Ridinour, Wilcox, WallyWorld, Kurt Thomas, Earl Watson.NY: Marbury, Crawford, Randolph, Curry, Lee, Robinson, Richardson, Balkman.Memphis: Navarro, Conley Jr, Gay, Darko, Miller, Warrick..I think you can make a case for all 3 "teams" being vastly superior than the Cavs.You can cross Durant off Seattle's roster,[insert whomever you consider NY's strongest link] off of NY's roster, and Gasol (lol done!) off of Memphis's roster. The resulting teams are still heads and shoulders better than the Cav's without Lebron.And yeah, I do realize I'm switching to Keith's side on this midstream, but what fun is debate if you can't actually sway yourself the other way after doing in depth research? ;)I think the team we've truly forgotten has been the Heat. You take Dwade off of the Heat and compare that cast to Cleveland's, and you finally got a well-balanced jv girls' game goin' on.

The biggest difference between the Cavs player and these teams is at least the Cav's players understand the concept of team defense and effort.Seattle even with Durant is horrible, Durant is chucking up a ton of shots and is only shooting something like 37% this year. None of Seattle's starters aside from Durant start on any playoff team. Green has potential, the rest are passed their prime or just overrated in general. Right now Durant is just a hyped prospect. NY I'll give you Crawford, he could play a lot of places and while Randolph is talented but he is an undersized headcase. They rest are over the hill underachievers or players who haven't left any kind of mark in the league at all. They don't play any defense so no matter how much LeBron helps them on the offense, they would sill give up a metric fuckton of points.Memphis your probably right about, for some reason I forgot they had Gay on the team. In the long run I think Connley will be a solid PG in the league but he isn't yet, and Darko is still soft inside especially on D so I wouldn't rate him any better than players on the Cavs yet.

[Cappy37 0]

The biggest difference between the Cavs player and these teams is at least the Cav's players understand the concept of team defense and effort.Seattle even with Durant is horrible, Durant is chucking up a ton of shots and is only shooting something like 37% this year. None of Seattle's starters aside from Durant start on any playoff team. Green has potential, the rest are passed their prime or just overrated in general. Right now Durant is just a hyped prospect.

This is true, but once again I'm going to have to bring up that none of Cleveland's roster deserved to even sniff the playoffs, and they all made the f'n finals.Gibson v. Watson?Gooden v. Wilcox?Hughes v. Wally or Green?This is pretty close. Gooden led the league 3 years straight in PPG for opposing PF, he was the running textbook definition of "defensive liability". Hughes when healthy is an absolute steal machine, but his atrocious shooting really whitewashes that out. The mere fact that we can argue these points means it's close.

NY I'll give you Crawford, he could play a lot of places and while Randolph is talented but he is an undersized headcase. They rest are over the hill underachievers or players who haven't left any kind of mark in the league at all. They don't play any defense so no matter how much LeBron helps them on the offense, they would sill give up a metric fuckton of points.

Cleveland's Management would ritually sacrifice anyone of Lebron's lackeys to bring in David Lee or even Robinson.And I resent the "Randolph is undersized" snippet, he *plays* undersized. I'm pretty sure on the TNT broadcasts Chuck Barkley grimaces (amusing choice of verb, i know) every time he see's Zach toss up one of his fruit fingerroll floaters or loses yet another board in traffic on both ends.

Memphis your probably right about, for some reason I forgot they had Gay on the team. In the long run I think Connley will be a solid PG in the league but he isn't yet, and Darko is still soft inside especially on D so I wouldn't rate him any better than players on the Cavs yet.

NEVER FORGET GAY. There was a headline on espn that (i sh*t you not) read : "Gay, Grizzlies overcome Clippers". I nearly peed myself laughing.As good as Gay is, JC Navarro is... having a monster season. He's on the league leaderboard for 3P%, and he's running the offense smoothly. Navarro and Gay are an incredible tandem.

[CaneBrain 95]

I disagree.One of the years Nash one it it was completely between him and Shaq, Kobe wasn't even in the picture and Shaq was doing the same old thing on the same team while Nash turned the Suns into a contender overnight. There is a reason everyone that plays with Nash has career years. Even the Lakers fans here think Odom is better without Kobe in the lineup.

I agree and disagree. I didnt actually check the years Kobe had when Nash won....I will assume you are right and Kobe was not the one robbed.Someone was robbed. This career year argument people make about Nash is very deceiving. Lets take Boris Diaw. He became a great player overnight when he moved from ATL to Phoenix. However, was that Nash or the system? And isnt it also important that Diaw also played WAY more minutes that first year in Phoenix than he ever did in ATL? Most of there "career years" are just as much a function of getting more minutes (and shots due to the way the Suns play) as they are of Steve Nash's brilliance.I personally think if there was an "Offensive POY" award Nash should have won it. But he is a sieve defensively and he has a TON of talent to work with in Phoenix. IMO, he never deserved MVP. If Kobe didnt get robbed, then Shaq or D-Wade or Lebron did. Someone.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

I've said this before that if Kobe didn't win in 05-06, he will never win the MVP. There has never been a more deserved MVP than him that year and he finished 4th in the voting. The majority of writers and voters hate him and will never let it go. As a Kobe and Laker fan, I'm ok with it. Let's say he finishes with 5, 6, or 7 rings and the perception from the players that he was the best player of this era at the very least, which they already admit, but he never wins an MVP; I think it will add a mystique to his legacy.

[showstopper24 0]

He's having a simply incredible year. He's hands down been the best on the offensive side of the ball this season. Does that translate to MVP? We shall see.....

Lebron is just, awesome this year. And MVP doesn't necesarily mean the best player, it means the person that brings the most to his team. I would just like to point out, that this year with out Lebron, the Cavs have not won a game (I think they have lost 7 in a row) and with him, they have a good record. Watching the Cavs with out Lebron is like watching the Cavs from before Lebron was on the team-they just look pathetic and I can't see how they can win a game. Lebron literaly makes a pathetic team into a great team. I don't think anybody else, not even Kobe, can do what Lebron has done to the Cavs.Lets look at Dwayne Wade. I often hear that he is better than Lebron, but Wade was on a team that lost 15 straight games. He could not win with a team full of pathetic players, whereas Lebron wins with a team of pathetic players.

[Jadaki 0]

Lets look at Dwayne Wade. I often hear that he is better than Lebron, but Wade was on a team that lost 15 straight games. He could not win with a team full of pathetic players, whereas Lebron wins with a team of pathetic players.

Wade is still fighting injuries and lets not forget who is a finals mvp and who isn't. When he got there he deliverd. lebron got thewrw and got smoked. I've seen Ivoerson carry scrub teams to the finals and at least put up a win by himself, lebron couldnt even prosuce one win on the biggest sage of his life.