Razz, Perfect Example......

[conor_mw 0]

........ of what not to doPokerStars Game #13822241399: Tournament #69788279, $10+$1 Razz Limit - Level III (40/80) - 2007/12/12 - 20:23:55 (ET)Table '69788279 14' 8-maxSeat 1: G_Money666 (2934 in chips) Seat 2: conor_mw (2802 in chips) Seat 3: JeffOGleeUSA (2398 in chips) Seat 4: traco3 (4119 in chips) Seat 5: kootenay (3422 in chips) Seat 6: snowman17 (2825 in chips) Seat 7: perro85 (2826 in chips) Seat 8: putativefish (2674 in chips) G_Money666: posts the ante 8conor_mw: posts the ante 8JeffOGleeUSA: posts the ante 8traco3: posts the ante 8kootenay: posts the ante 8snowman17: posts the ante 8perro85: posts the ante 8putativefish: posts the ante 8*** 3rd STREET ***Dealt to G_Money666 [7c]Dealt to conor_mw [5h Ac Kd]Dealt to JeffOGleeUSA [Ts]Dealt to traco3 [Jc]Dealt to kootenay [9d]Dealt to snowman17 [9h]Dealt to perro85 [8d]Dealt to putativefish [4s]conor_mw: brings in for 12JeffOGleeUSA: folds traco3: folds kootenay: folds snowman17: folds perro85: folds putativefish: folds G_Money666: folds conor_mw collected 64 from potconor_mw: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot 64 | Rake 0 Seat 1: G_Money666 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 2: conor_mw collected (64)Seat 3: JeffOGleeUSA folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 4: traco3 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 5: kootenay folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 6: snowman17 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 7: perro85 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)Seat 8: putativefish folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)

[XXEddie 0]

I almost puke when this happens.Last guy to fold had a 7 up, should be insta-raisenext was a 4 up, even quicker insta-raise in his spotthen an 8, which could be debatable.This is a good example of how to take advantage of weak razz players, they dont care what they are showing and what you are showing, they only play their hand

[HangukMiguk 8]

To quote my Korean friend: They is suck.BTW, if the seven completes, defend. This is not a bad position to do it in. You just have to be really careful as to whether you continue post-4th.

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

To quote my Korean friend: They is suck.BTW, if the seven completes, defend. This is not a bad position to do it in. You just have to be really careful as to whether you continue post-4th.

This would be a good spot to discuss defending your bring in. Since Hang is the razz specialist maybe we could get some examples?

[checkymcfold 0]

This would be a good spot to discuss defending your bring in. Since Hang is the razz specialist maybe we could get some examples?

when you have 2 decent cards under and the last good low card raises, defend (unless the raiser has folded in hands like the OP). in live play, i 3bet sometimes, even, if i have a read.

[Cappy37 0]

This would be a good spot to discuss defending your bring in. Since Hang is the razz specialist maybe we could get some examples?

It's simple really, call the raise, if you catch better on 4th, fire out. By 5th, if your board looks as good as as his, you can't give him ample credit for having better.On the same token, any time you see a Jack or higher playing with you, if they hit an ace on any subsequent street, they are about roughly 98.6% likely to have an ace in the hole and to have paired. Maybe not 98%, but I never consider an ace paired with a high card up a danger in razz, pairing is way too likely.

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

when you have 2 decent cards under and the last good low card raises, defend (unless the raiser has folded in hands like the OP). in live play, i 3bet sometimes, even, if i have a read.

Okay, are you defending a hand like K73 from an EP raise? And if the initial raiser and you both catch bad on 4th, do you continue?

[Frez 0]

Okay, are you defending a hand like K73 from an EP raise? And if the initial raiser and you both catch bad on 4th, do you continue?

Generally no, we're not defending from an EP raise. It's LP potential steal raises that we're talking about.

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

Generally no, we're not defending from an EP raise. It's LP potential steal raises that we're talking about.

So you are defending only versus the LP potential steals, unless you have a solid read? I play a fair amount of razz, but I am super TAG when i do. Mostly I play the low stakes games on FT, so I think it would be unwise to open up a great deal. These games are uber soft and using the TAG style not only is my predominant style, but it seems you just don't need to get fancy in these. Razz MTT's are a different animal though.

[Frez 0]

So you are defending only versus the LP potential steals, unless you have a solid read?

Isn't that the definition of defending? You defend blinds or bring ins against potenital steals. Few players raise from EP as a steal, unless you bring in and only the guy in EP has a small card and everyone else has a face card up. Someone who completes/raises from EP with other decent cards left to act is not stealing.Some others might weigh in with their opinions yet...

Mostly I play the low stakes games on FT, so I think it would be unwise to open up a great deal. These games are uber soft and using the TAG style not only is my predominant style, but it seems you just don't need to get fancy in these.

I agree, tight is generally right. Low stakes is a relative term though. 1/2 is low stakes to a 20/40 player. .10/.20 is pocket change to a 2/4 player. More than the stakes, it's an issue of how loose the table is.

[SpiderGuard 0]

I agree, tight is generally right. Low stakes is a relative term though. 1/2 is low stakes to a 20/40 player. .10/.20 is pocket change to a 2/4 player. More than the stakes, it's an issue of how loose the table is.

I think it's not so much "TAG" that's the right strategy at the low stakes, but more ABC poker. Pick good starting hands, bet them aggressively when they're ahead, and punish all the dead money in the pot. On the other hand, don't get fancy in Razz and cry "How could he call there with a Jack and a King showing?" when you have three pair. That's the exact mistake you want them to make when you have a strong hand, and they will. But don't expect them to then fold when you don't have a hand because they should respect your raises.