Atheism.

[Kaveros 0]

Well I was raised a very devout Christian and would have defended it against anything thinking my God would reward me.However a few years ago I was turned onto the WONDERFUL Penn & Teller and my world changed.I was actually VERY unhappy before becomming an Atheist. I thought (no joke) that demons were out to get me and that I would bestolen away and thrown into hell.Anybody else been "saved" by Atheism/Libertarianism/Sainty?Lets have some sane talk for once.

[brvheart 1,752]

Don't die anytime soon. You will regret it... forever! (e.g. Burning in Hell)

[jmkiser 0]

Lol brvheart!yeah, it started with a friend of mine in high school. He was quite the conservative republican and someone who was extremely logical and I looked up to him very much (sorry for the poor english there). Over time, I noticed that he was more and more frustrated with the Republican party and with Bush not doing what he promised to do in office.... He decided to leave the party and team up with the Libertarians for some change in this country. At 18 years old, he ran for the sheriff of Hamilton County in Indiana (as a Libertarian). The coolest thing about it is that he got about 10% of the votes in one of the most Republican county in the entire United States.After his inspiration, I started wising up to quite a few different issues.... well, all of them around one main thing which I call individual freedom. That is the MOST important issue to me, personally, and has been for quite awhile. Sure, there is a line that citizens can not cross, but I push my line towards giving the people the benefit of the doubt way before government. Since 2000, I find civil liberties sliding in the complete wrong direction :(As far as my atheism, that was all on my own. Moving on in life, I didn't have the same superiors anymore. I didn't answer to the people that I used to. Reality shows you that you answer to yourself only and that personal responsibility is one of the most important keys in life. It was a crossover lesson from my political ideology and I applied that to everything else. What was sad is that I started to see certain things for what they are (regarding religion where I lived).... made me very angry, very biased.... and in many cases, I felt very helpless for so many people that were wrapped up in religion that took over their lives.With time to mature, of course, I see that everyone is going to choose their own ways. And as bad as I considered religion to be, I also saw so many other vices that people wrap their lives in that are as bad if not worse. I, actually, have great respect for Penn & Teller's show because they uncover so much more then just the standard Libertarian/Atheist ideology. They cover every topic in every manner (even if it might be a little biased sometimes). Also, not every Christian is the same. Separately, I find most Christians to have the best hearts (most... definitely not all... I'm sick and tired of the righteous and dignified soccer moms). I blame the ideology and the group fanaticism more then I blame the individual. Idk, I guess all I'm saying is watch how you look at people. No matter the background, we're all individuals with our own stories...................................................................................................GG Blog post / forum replywhere the **** did that come out of me?

[Loismustdie 0]

Lol brvheart!yeah, it started with a friend of mine in high school. He was quite the conservative republican and someone who was extremely logical and I looked up to him very much (sorry for the poor english there). Over time, I noticed that he was more and more frustrated with the Republican party and with Bush not doing what he promised to do in office.... He decided to leave the party and team up with the Libertarians for some change in this country. At 18 years old, he ran for the sheriff of Hamilton County in Indiana (as a Libertarian). The coolest thing about it is that he got about 10% of the votes in one of the most Republican county in the entire United States.After his inspiration, I started wising up to quite a few different issues.... well, all of them around one main thing which I call individual freedom. That is the MOST important issue to me, personally, and has been for quite awhile. Sure, there is a line that citizens can not cross, but I push my line towards giving the people the benefit of the doubt way before government. Since 2000, I find civil liberties sliding in the complete wrong direction :(As far as my atheism, that was all on my own. Moving on in life, I didn't have the same superiors anymore. I didn't answer to the people that I used to. Reality shows you that you answer to yourself only and that personal responsibility is one of the most important keys in life. It was a crossover lesson from my political ideology and I applied that to everything else. What was sad is that I started to see certain things for what they are (regarding religion where I lived).... made me very angry, very biased.... and in many cases, I felt very helpless for so many people that were wrapped up in religion that took over their lives.With time to mature, of course, I see that everyone is going to choose their own ways. And as bad as I considered religion to be, I also saw so many other vices that people wrap their lives in that are as bad if not worse. I, actually, have great respect for Penn & Teller's show because they uncover so much more then just the standard Libertarian/Atheist ideology. They cover every topic in every manner (even if it might be a little biased sometimes). Also, not every Christian is the same. Separately, I find most Christians to have the best hearts (most... definitely not all... I'm sick and tired of the righteous and dignified soccer moms). I blame the ideology and the group fanaticism more then I blame the individual. Idk, I guess all I'm saying is watch how you look at people. No matter the background, we're all individuals with our own stories...................................................................................................GG Blog post / forum replywhere the **** did that come out of me?

Good post Kiser. I think one thing that people fail to ask is this: Do you own your religion or does your religion own you? Does it dictate how you think or do you learn how to think on your own? It seems that those who are taught to think by the religion often miss the point/intent of the thought process behind it. Those who already know how to think, get it and can use it for good. Sounds to me like your religion taught you how to think- that's why you believed that demons were out to get you. Which shows a certain weak-mindedness, that is easily exploited by a T.V. show. I wish you luck, and find it a bit disconcerting that you came to a Religous forum for assurance, but on the other hand this paret of the forum lost its religous flavor long ago.

[crowTrobot 2]

but on the other hand this paret of the forum lost its religous flavor long ago.

paret?

[speedz99 145]

Sounds to me like your religion taught you how to think- that's why you believed that demons were out to get you. Which shows a certain weak-mindedness, that is easily exploited by a T.V. show.

Thinking shows weak-mindedness?

[Loismustdie 0]

Thinking shows weak-mindedness?

Read it again. And again, and you will probably get it. Lol, Crow. I can't have a typo once in awhile?

[speedz99 145]

Read it again. And again, and you will probably get it.

No, I won't. That's probably because you've made an error and it doesn't technically say what you want it to say. Here's how it goes as written.1. he was taught how to thinkwhich led to this2. he believed demons were after himproving3. he is weak-mindedMaybe you should rearrange the ordering or just clarify. I'm not Jesus, I can't read your mind if you write poorly.Edit: Or maybe as a Christian you don't believe in the Transitive Property.

[Loismustdie 0]

No, I won't. That's probably because you've made an error and it doesn't technically say what you want it to say. Here's how it goes as written.1. he was taught how to thinkwhich led to this2. he believed demons were after himproving3. he is weak-mindedMaybe you should rearrange the ordering or just clarify. I'm not Jesus, I can't read your mind if you write poorly.Edit: Or maybe as a Christian you don't believe in the Transitive Property.

No. Weak minded because his thought process was developed by his religous beliefs vs. himself, thinking through things. Somebody told him so, so he bought into it, tailored his life to it. Now, Penn and teller are telling him something else, so he is now going to go that direction. He still isn't quite sure of himself, however, so what he is looking for is this: somebody else, on a random forum, to validate what Penn and Teller said. That's the definition of weak-minded. Did I set it up for you enough, sweetheart?

[Kaveros 0]

Good post Kiser. I think one thing that people fail to ask is this: Do you own your religion or does your religion own you? Does it dictate how you think or do you learn how to think on your own? It seems that those who are taught to think by the religion often miss the point/intent of the thought process behind it. Those who already know how to think, get it and can use it for good. Sounds to me like your religion taught you how to think- that's why you believed that demons were out to get you. Which shows a certain weak-mindedness, that is easily exploited by a T.V. show. I wish you luck, and find it a bit disconcerting that you came to a Religous forum for assurance, but on the other hand this paret of the forum lost its religous flavor long ago.

Well for one not everybody who reads this forum is religious, shows VERY clearly by posts.And I didn't come here for assurance.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Don't die anytime soon. You will regret it... forever! (e.g. Burning in Hell)

Tangentially, why do you think that God decided that death marks the point of no return? It seems like an arbitrary point in time if the emphasis is on the soul. Why can't people be saved after they are dead?

[speedz99 145]

No. Weak minded because his thought process was developed by his religous beliefs vs. himself, thinking through things. Somebody told him so, so he bought into it, tailored his life to it. Now, Penn and teller are telling him something else, so he is now going to go that direction. He still isn't quite sure of himself, however, so what he is looking for is this: somebody else, on a random forum, to validate what Penn and Teller said. That's the definition of weak-minded. Did I set it up for you enough, sweetheart?

No wonder I couldn't understand what you were trying to say.LOLThat's fucking fantastic. Someone who was taught something from birth and then by hearing another side of it is able to break through and change his mind is WEAK MINDED. I LOVE IT!!! The strong ones just stick with what they've always been told, regardless of what other evidence and logic is presented. LOVE IT!!!Thanks for that. Hopefully this thread won't be deleted too.

[Loismustdie 0]

No wonder I couldn't understand what you were trying to say.LOLThat's fucking fantastic. Someone who was taught something from birth and then by hearing another side of it is able to break through and change his mind is WEAK MINDED. I LOVE IT!!! The strong ones just stick with what they've always been told, regardless of what other evidence and logic is presented. LOVE IT!!!Thanks for that. Hopefully this thread won't be deleted too.

Sometimes you are dumb as a box of rocks. First of all, it's stupid to blame a religion, any religion, for what you believe. It's a system- you yourself buy into it. If you do blame the religion, than I can only assume that you don't think for yourself. Then, when you say you have found this magical show, and now it has replaced your thinking.... see how that works. The strong ones do as they please and know they have only themselves to blame for whatever decision they make. That deletion was weird. Might have been because it went from science to "lets try and find the next retarded reason to find fault in the Bible." Seriously, I would just stick with the whole coming back from the dead thing and just leave it at that. I mean, if you can't buy that a crowd can be one with something you could never believe in the dead rising.

[Loismustdie 0]

Tangentially, why do you think that God decided that death marks the point of no return? It seems like an arbitrary point in time if the emphasis is on the soul. Why can't people be saved after they are dead?

Because the soul, once it leaves this mortal body, can no longer sin, or do good, or anything. It can no longer atone for itself. Once to die, and then the judgement. I don't remember the scripture off hand, but that's close to verbatim.

[brvheart 1,752]

Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

[NickZepp 0]

I'm not an athiest. Agnostic is probably the better term. The problem I have with religion is the idea that a God creates something just to punish people for no real good reason. Also I'm skeptical of the fact of there being an afterlife. The thing about religion is no proof against it but there's also no real proof for it,

[checkymcfold 0]

i wasn't really "saved" by atheism, properly speaking, although i am a somewhat atheistic agnostic.for me it was more of a matter of realizing that i didn't really care enough about the question of gods and religion in terms of my own life (although i do fully understand that others may decide differently on the matter, and that's cool) to ever really warrant spending much time on it. it's not that i had some big, life-changing experience; i just realized that all i was really going for was being a good person anyway, and that i could pull that one off on my own.

[Balloon guy 158]

Tangentially, why do you think that God decided that death marks the point of no return? It seems like an arbitrary point in time if the emphasis is on the soul. Why can't people be saved after they are dead?

Interesting side not:The Mormon church believes that they not only can save people after they die, the vast majority of the rituals they perform in the Temple are geared towards contacting their ancestors to convert them.And in the Satanic Bible the ghoul in charge of possessing the dead is named Mormo.

[Balloon guy 158]

Tangentially, why do you think that God decided that death marks the point of no return? It seems like an arbitrary point in time if the emphasis is on the soul. Why can't people be saved after they are dead?

Interesting side not:The Mormon church believes that they not only can save people after they die, the vast majority of the rituals they perform in the Temple are geared towards contacting their ancestors to convert them.And in the Satanic Bible the ghoul in charge of possessing the dead is named Mormo.

[simo_8ball 0]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

I seriously love this quote.

[speedz99 145]

Sometimes you are dumb as a box of rocks. First of all, it's stupid to blame a religion, any religion, for what you believe. It's a system- you yourself buy into it. If you do blame the religion, than I can only assume that you don't think for yourself. Then, when you say you have found this magical show, and now it has replaced your thinking.... see how that works. The strong ones do as they please and know they have only themselves to blame for whatever decision they make.

It's so sad that this is how you view what happened. So sad.It wasn't a "magical show" first of all...but to you any scientific arguments are no better than magic, so I don't know what to say about that. Should the OP take responsibility for buying into the religious crap he was taught? Probably, but I really can't blame him for being mad about it. If I had a bunch of nutjobs trying to brainwash me from birth I might have believed it for a while and then been bitter about it. Watching a show that breaks down some of the more incredibly stupid claims from the bible and realizing that, and I know this is crazy to you, holy shit, your religion actually is ridiculous and no better than believing in the old greek gods that were driving the sun across the sky isn't a sign of weakness. It's a sign of a mind that at least is still a little open. And don't pretend this isn't what you meant...you obviously weren't just referring to the "taking responsibility" thing. You think it's weak that he changed his mind based on watching that show, and that's pathetic on your part.

That deletion was weird. Might have been because it went from science to "lets try and find the next retarded reason to find fault in the Bible." Seriously, I would just stick with the whole coming back from the dead thing and just leave it at that. I mean, if you can't buy that a crowd can be one with something you could never believe in the dead rising.

I'm sure it's possible that JC almost died and then was saved at the last second (then claimed he was brought back from the dead). It's still completely absurd to think that the Romans tried to convince the jews not to kill jc, but they insisted and then figured it was time to claim that his blood was on their hands (and their children's).It's fucking ridiculous. OF COURSE it's completely unrealistic, but you can't even bring yourself to admit that it seems kind of strange. Like I said in the deleted thread, me and ouch probably find 95% of the dialogue in the bible to be at least somewhat realistic. This specific part is not. You're so blinded by your faith that you can't see that this is the definition of us being objective and you being completely biased and useless in any real conversation. At least you're still good for entertainment though.