Poker Reality Check Time

[troyomac 0]

I'm probably just going to repeat a lot of what's been said already, but I figured I'd talk about how going pro has been for me as well.I dropped out of college, because it wasn't for me, and came home to start working at a hotel, followed by working in a factory. I played poker on the side, and finally started winning a fair amount while I was in the factory. After working as a temp for like 10 months, I finally got a job offer on a Friday, and was told to come in Monday for orientation. Well on Sunday I won 8000 in a tourney, giving me about 20,000 to my name, so I got drunk, stayed up til 3, slept, went in at 6am, and told them I didn't want the job.I also was living at home, had no gf, or kids or anything to tie me down. This was a perfect opportunity for me to take a chance, and if I failed, well how hard is it to get another factory job?It started out great, I was loving the fact that I could do what I loved all the time, and consider it work. Though it never felt like work. I started out the grind, then moved out of my dad's house 4 months later. Since then it has gotten a lot harder, but also a lot easier..it's a weird mix. I have been a very consistant winner, and my bankroll has increased considerably. I feel very confident with where I am financially, but I still am responsible with it. I can treat myself to little things like nice meals, or dvd boxsets, but I won't spend money on a new car even though I'm driving a 98 Ford Escort. There's just no reason for it, a car is to get from A to B (although I think Ryland's pretty balla!). Some of the hard things for me have been losing a lot of money at higher buyins. I still play overrolled for any game I'm in, but the losses just feel bigger when you look at it as real money and not "buyins". I'm actually really struggling with this. I'm also struggling with losing at all. Since it's been a fairly easy ride for me, I never really took losing into consideration because I lost so rarely. Now with my style of play, the swings are bigger, I lose more often, and it's really tough emotionally. I'm normally cool, calm and collected, but recently I've punched holes my wall, banged my fist on my laptop, and just feel very angry. Sometimes I tilt, and throw away a buyin just because I'm angry, and this is something I never would have done before. I always prided myself on being able to control my emotions, and it's a lot harder lately.Another negative has been my lifestyle in general. Before I played poker I was very active. I used to golf every week in the summer, play tennis, go rollerblading, play hockey, baseball. I always had time for my friends, and enjoyed being social. Now I make time for my friends when I can (and when they can, they are busy too), but for a while I was often "busy working". That was part of the addiction of poker and poker IS an addiction. I never play sports anymore, and when my friends ask me to, I say no because I'm so out of shape, and have put on a lot of weight, that it's just too hard to. So all that being said, I don't regret playing poker for a living, and if I could go back and change it, I wouldn't. I love poker, and being good enough to make a living at it. What I would change though is how I approached it from a lifestyle point of view, and not have it take over my life like it did.

[nutzbuster 7]

I'm probably just going to repeat a lot of what's been said already, but I figured I'd talk about how going pro has been for me as well.I dropped out of college, because it wasn't for me, and came home to start working at a hotel, followed by working in a factory. I played poker on the side, and finally started winning a fair amount while I was in the factory. After working as a temp for like 10 months, I finally got a job offer on a Friday, and was told to come in Monday for orientation. Well on Sunday I won 8000 in a tourney, giving me about 20,000 to my name, so I got drunk, stayed up til 3, slept, went in at 6am, and told them I didn't want the job.I also was living at home, had no gf, or kids or anything to tie me down. This was a perfect opportunity for me to take a chance, and if I failed, well how hard is it to get another factory job?It started out great, I was loving the fact that I could do what I loved all the time, and consider it work. Though it never felt like work. I started out the grind, then moved out of my dad's house 4 months later. Since then it has gotten a lot harder, but also a lot easier..it's a weird mix. I have been a very consistant winner, and my bankroll has increased considerably. I feel very confident with where I am financially, but I still am responsible with it. I can treat myself to little things like nice meals, or dvd boxsets, but I won't spend money on a new car even though I'm driving a 98 Ford Escort. There's just no reason for it, a car is to get from A to B (although I think Ryland's pretty balla!). Some of the hard things for me have been losing a lot of money at higher buyins. I still play overrolled for any game I'm in, but the losses just feel bigger when you look at it as real money and not "buyins". I'm actually really struggling with this. I'm also struggling with losing at all. Since it's been a fairly easy ride for me, I never really took losing into consideration because I lost so rarely. Now with my style of play, the swings are bigger, I lose more often, and it's really tough emotionally. I'm normally cool, calm and collected, but recently I've punched holes my wall, banged my fist on my laptop, and just feel very angry. Sometimes I tilt, and throw away a buyin just because I'm angry, and this is something I never would have done before. I always prided myself on being able to control my emotions, and it's a lot harder lately.Another negative has been my lifestyle in general. Before I played poker I was very active. I used to golf every week in the summer, play tennis, go rollerblading, play hockey, baseball. I always had time for my friends, and enjoyed being social. Now I make time for my friends when I can (and when they can, they are busy too), but for a while I was often "busy working". That was part of the addiction of poker and poker IS an addiction. I never play sports anymore, and when my friends ask me to, I say no because I'm so out of shape, and have put on a lot of weight, that it's just too hard to. So all that being said, I don't regret playing poker for a living, and if I could go back and change it, I wouldn't. I love poker, and being good enough to make a living at it. What I would change though is how I approached it from a lifestyle point of view, and not have it take over my life like it did.

Damn Ray, you da bomb bro! WE LOVE YOU MAN!Take a little break, just a few days, got to the Falls or something, smell the fresh air. It's not too late to get some balance bro.Come out to our next outing, K?

[jmbreslin 0]

Latex?Talk about a thread de-rail!

No, you're mixing up different episodes. The Art Vandalay that sold latex was different from Art Vandalay the importer/exporter. They actually made several different references to Art Vandalay over the course of the show.

[Roberts2003 0]

I don't no most of you as I don't often post on this site, and if i do, it's in the NL section. But a lot of these posts were great reads and really informative. I am 19, and I did freshman year last year at the University of Pennsylvania. Right now I am taking a semester off for no real reason other then that it is hard to concentrate in school when I can play poker and make monies. In regards to the poker job resume thing, I have a few friends who are seniors now in college and who make bank in online poker, and says that it has actually helped huge in their favor. Granted, both the jobs were for investment banks, so I am not saying all jobs look favorably on it, but I never really knew that there were any jobs out there that looked favorably at poker on a resume. One of my friends has a below 3 GPA, but goes to a very good school, and is probably going to get a very good job based on what school he goes to and how much he makes playing online poker. Basically, this has really inspired me to go back to school and get my degree and try to do as well as I can. I am doing very well for myself now, but I don't no how much longer it all can last and I think I want to do more with my life then just click a mouse all day.

[Jam-Fly 8]

I've never thought the lifestyle fit me, so I have never 'gone pro'. I think it's all a matter of one's personality, and how the up and downs of playing a game like poker will affect you. Maybe I'm just a life nit, but I've always felt that if I ever played poker strictly as a profession, then any fun I find in the game still (it varies, depending on how many races I'm winning) would be gone. I really think people with a 'gambler' mentality are more suited to play poker as a profession; I consider myself more of an 'educated guess' guy. Not to say that I don't like to gamble, but I guess I have limits.If I somehow got lucky and won a big tournament, I guess I would 'go pro', but that would just mean I wouldn't work a day job anymore, play more live tournaments, and play a _lot_ more golf. The day to day grind of being a cash game player, or the similar downsides to travelling the tournament circuit, are not that attractive to me. I have quite a few friends who do just that, and I have a ton of respect for them for being able to do so, but I don't think it is the lifestyle for most people. I have to admit however, that if the poker boom had hit when I was 18-19, I probably would have dove right in and not cared (or known better) to look back. Obviously, the stage that you are at in your life matters a lot when you make a decision like that. Now, I would prefer to be more like Dan Harrington. He plays a handful of tournaments a year, and has a life outside of poker.I think this is a very good post by Nutzbuster, and hope that a lot of the younger posters on here that only see the upside of poker, take the same sort of self assessment of themselves before diving into a career as a poker player.GLGL Nutz on whatever you decide.

So do you work a day job? (sorry if it's mentioned somehwhere else, too lazy to read whole thread)

[Jam-Fly 8]

I've never thought the lifestyle fit me, so I have never 'gone pro'. I think it's all a matter of one's personality, and how the up and downs of playing a game like poker will affect you. Maybe I'm just a life nit, but I've always felt that if I ever played poker strictly as a profession, then any fun I find in the game still (it varies, depending on how many races I'm winning) would be gone. I really think people with a 'gambler' mentality are more suited to play poker as a profession; I consider myself more of an 'educated guess' guy. Not to say that I don't like to gamble, but I guess I have limits.If I somehow got lucky and won a big tournament, I guess I would 'go pro', but that would just mean I wouldn't work a day job anymore, play more live tournaments, and play a _lot_ more golf. The day to day grind of being a cash game player, or the similar downsides to travelling the tournament circuit, are not that attractive to me. I have quite a few friends who do just that, and I have a ton of respect for them for being able to do so, but I don't think it is the lifestyle for most people. I have to admit however, that if the poker boom had hit when I was 18-19, I probably would have dove right in and not cared (or known better) to look back. Obviously, the stage that you are at in your life matters a lot when you make a decision like that. Now, I would prefer to be more like Dan Harrington. He plays a handful of tournaments a year, and has a life outside of poker.I think this is a very good post by Nutzbuster, and hope that a lot of the younger posters on here that only see the upside of poker, take the same sort of self assessment of themselves before diving into a career as a poker player.GLGL Nutz on whatever you decide.

So do you work a day job? (sorry if it's mentioned somehwhere else, too lazy to read whole thread)

[RDog 0]

Somehow I missed this thread until it got linked?So basically, I made this decision about 3 months ago. At the time, I was working a corporate job making low 6 figures, had already ridden the fast track to a decent level in a multi billion dollar insurance company. I had decided a long time ago that my eventual goal was to have my own business. I had already started looking into things several months before this but wasn't quite sure what I was going to do. Lots of things happened with reporting structures and I was miserable. So, I decided I would play poker primarily while I worked on getting my business started back in July.I think probably the worst thing possible happened to me the first full month. August was a great month for me. Not a lot happened in my life for me to lose focus, I grinded, played tourneys and spent a ton of hours playing poker. Unfortunately, hard to go up from there.September was not a horrible month by any means but it was a month where I made less from playing than I would have if I had kept my job. My girlfriend also had a ton of things going on her life that took away from me being able to play. This is the "downside" to not having a set schedule. To her and all my friends I am now always available. Nothing like trying to grind when people keep calling you and wanting to "chat". And it was also the month that I had decided that with my new poker income from August that I should find a couple players to back. Basically on the advice of another player I respect and taking a quick glance at his stats, I jumped right in with backing one player without looking at a ton of hands the person had played. Bad idea. I am basically leaving the deal this weekend with him having quite a bit of makeup because I now realize he is not a winning player. So that money affected my profits for September. Moral of this part of the story, don't jump into something without making sure you are 100% sure what you are getting in to. October is the month that is really testing me. Almost halfway through the month and I am down quite a bit and have had things come up again where I can't put in enough hands to get out of it. It's tough. It's frustrating. It's depressing.There are definite downsides. I have a decent amount of money from savings and money I cashed out from my 401k to use as my poker bankroll and get my business started so I don't have a ton of pressure to win every month but it is definitely scary to think that my bank account might be going down this month (along with my online roll).And in the end, I would do it again. The freedom is great. Playing a game for a living is great. Having the time to be able to spend hours studying the game is great. The competition is great. Having to fight through adversity is great.

[a__thekevlar__2 0]

tl;dr

[chgocubs99 0]

OK Abba, that's a fair enough estimate that I at least see what you meant. Obviously I was looking at it saying that if you make 50K at a real job and 150K playing poker then that is only 3x as much. You are doing 150-25 and 50-25, so that's fine. I think you are exaggerating the numbers a bit by assuming that someone is going to play 30 hrs/week EVERY single week. BUT at the same time I am underestimating the interest that is earned on that extra saved money, so I'll call that one a wash. That leaves my final question the one you didn't really elaborate on much; the one about taxes. Doesn't this come out of the 150K the same way money comes out of the 50K? Obviously the money you have isn't taxed until tax time playing poker, giving you even more liquidity and even more opportunites to invest. If you could expand upon these points if you don't mind I would appreciate that.Also, not everyone is in as much control as you are. So to say "if you don't suck this is easy" isn't necessarily the case. It all depends on each individuals situation, no?Oh yea, and Troyomac, I would say that getting a "real job" has severely hampered mine and dozens of other people that I know's ability to work out and stay active. I do not think this is exclusive to poker by any means, but more a matter of having a "real job". In your case poker.

[Bizzle 0]

I've never thought the lifestyle fit me, so I have never 'gone pro'. I think it's all a matter of one's personality, and how the up and downs of playing a game like poker will affect you. Maybe I'm just a life nit, but I've always felt that if I ever played poker strictly as a profession, then any fun I find in the game still (it varies, depending on how many races I'm winning) would be gone. I really think people with a 'gambler' mentality are more suited to play poker as a profession; I consider myself more of an 'educated guess' guy. Not to say that I don't like to gamble, but I guess I have limits.If I somehow got lucky and won a big tournament, I guess I would 'go pro', but that would just mean I wouldn't work a day job anymore, play more live tournaments, and play a _lot_ more golf. The day to day grind of being a cash game player, or the similar downsides to travelling the tournament circuit, are not that attractive to me. I have quite a few friends who do just that, and I have a ton of respect for them for being able to do so, but I don't think it is the lifestyle for most people. I have to admit however, that if the poker boom had hit when I was 18-19, I probably would have dove right in and not cared (or known better) to look back. Obviously, the stage that you are at in your life matters a lot when you make a decision like that. Now, I would prefer to be more like Dan Harrington, Victor Ramdin, or Alan Goehring. He plays a handful of tournaments a year, and has a life outside of poker.I think this is a very good post by Nutzbuster, and hope that a lot of the younger posters on here that only see the upside of poker, take the same sort of self assessment of themselves before diving into a career as a poker player.GLGL Nutz on whatever you decide.

I'll just quote this as Pat and I have talked about it and it basically perfectly echoes both my current and future desires as they pertain to poker.Also, I added a couple of names to the Harrington reference.

[Canuck007 0]

When I was 17 I won $12,803 from a Partypoker tournament and I put it away for University. My plan is to be an accountant/poker in my free time which wont be a lot. Also take vacation, charge $30-40/family for income tax season and theres my life. Good money, enjoyable life, and on my vacations, go to vegas and play some poker. I think going pro could cause a lot of stress and if you depend on winning 1k+ a day to pay your bills then good luck with that. I know people who could win in a night and have all rent/food/misc bills paid off and then they have 3 weeks of free poker.

[Variancelawl 0]

i suppose this the perfect time to show you someone's life story on poker, from the 2+2 community. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...ge=3#Post675552 It is a fantastic read that covers about 6 years of him going pro. You have to navigate through it after his first post, But well worth it. They come in 1 year intervals.

[profxavier9 0]

I just began playing professionally after I graduated college. So far its been great being able to just play for a living and not have a schedule or a boss. For me the freedom is the best thing about playing poker and you can't put a price on freedom and flexibility. However it can be hard at times to motivate yourself to play and stay focused. But once you get in to a routine and really crack down on yourself, things move a lot more smoothly. One thing that every seems to hit on is spending too much money, so basically I'm trying to live as frugally as possible. I mean I'm 22 and just graduated college, so I don't have a ton of expenses or needs. I do know however, that if I put in the time and hands the money will come, I just have to dedicate myself and play my best at all times. One person already mentioned this, but my number one fear about this is if poker doesn't work out in say four years is what to do about my resume and getting a job. If the games dry up or i go busto, what will I do about the four year gap in my resume. I have a degree so thats a start, but I've heard from others that unexplained gaps in resumes are killers. Not much i can do though, I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it.One final thing for Scott (Nutzbuster). Scott you are truly one of the coolest "old guys" (and I use that term very loosely as we know you're about 19 at heart) that I've ever met. Seriously when I'm your age I only hope I'm half as cool as you are. I mean Amber from Survivor definitely wanted you. Scott you a huge poker fan and have a passion for just watching people play and railing tournaments. I would hate to see you lose that passion for the game in general if you go on a bad stretch actually playing poker. You truly take joy in meeting and supporting other people and I would hate to see you lose that, b/c very few people have that ability.

All you have to do is lie. like every1 else does.