simo_8ball 0 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem TournamentBlinds: t120/t240(Ante: t25)9 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: t1428UTG+1: t692MP1: t9470MP2: t4610MP3: t15251Hero: t6770Button: t8650SB: t11785BB: t7104Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with T A UTG raises all-in t1403, 4 folds, Hero?Not been at the table long, and no read on UTG. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 It depends a lot on where you are in the tournament, but i would be more inclined than not to call here. Link to post Share on other sites
NonZeroPossibility 0 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 You still have 3 people behind you.... yuck. Coinflip at best. Dominated at worst. Link to post Share on other sites
jjgoldy5 0 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 You still have 3 people behind you.... yuck. Coinflip at best. Dominated at worst.This is huge... You have 3 options1. Calling - Prices in the blinds2. Raising - -EV when you arent even sure you're ahead of UTG and 3 people left who could wake up with real hands if you raise to isolate3. FoldingFolding > Calling > Raising... I would only consider calling if UTG has been shoving very wide Link to post Share on other sites
throwemaway 0 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 UTG has an M of 2 and some change...We are def. ahead of his range..If it were me, I'd shove ATC here..I think it just becomes a question of calling vs raising..I honestly have no clue what is the best play..If I were the button, I'd prefer raising..I think I call and hope no one else gets involved, although its a tough spot regardless Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Coinflip at best. Dominated at worst.If I was UTG, I'd be shoving any two cards there. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 For some reason i thought you were the BB and everyone folded to you, it's a harder decision in this case, but i'd still probably call. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 UTG should be pushing w/ a wide range here... probably a lot of times w/ lower cards hoping to be live if called. Basically he could have any random hand. A10s is way ahead of his range... and there's quite a bit of dead money in the pot. Did villain lose a hand to go down to that stack or has he simply folded the hands you've seen so far?You have a decent stack... and you're new to the table. I think I would wait to see a few more hands before I get myself in a difficult decision w/ people still to act behind me. Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Wow this is close. UTG is pushing nearly ATC here. Your stack is a significant portion of the 3 stacks behind you. Shoving here with AT would be *great* advertising for future action. I think we are only called by TT+/AQ+ from behind. Of course, all those crush us, so hmmmm...This play is incredibly +EV if we can isolate. We may need to see the math on 3 unknowns waking up with better than a mid-pocket pair or an Ace better than AJ.You also may use your time bank to PM Balloon Guy to see if Ace-Ten is "hot" that day. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Sparco 2 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 We may need to see the math on 3 unknowns waking up with better than a mid-pocket pair or an Ace better than AJ.You rang, sir?TT, AA: 2 * 3 = 6 handsJJ-KK: 3 * 6 = 18 handsAQ, AK: 2 * 12 = 24 handsTotal: 48 handsTotal possible hands: 50*49/2 = 1225Chance of one player having one of these hands: 48/1225 = rougly 3,9%Chance of at least one of three players having such a hand: 1-(1-0,039)^3 = approximately 11,3%(5AM warning: I may not be as sharp as I think, so feel free to check my numbers ) Link to post Share on other sites
AKProdigy 0 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You rang, sir?TT, AA: 2 * 3 = 6 handsJJ-KK: 3 * 6 = 18 handsAQ, AK: 2 * 12 = 24 handsTotal: 48 handsTotal possible hands: 50*49/2 = 1225Chance of one player having one of these hands: 48/1225 = rougly 3,9%Chance of at least one of three players having such a hand: 1-(1-0,039)^3 = approximately 11,3%(5AM warning: I may not be as sharp as I think, so feel free to check my numbers )Math looks good (well slightly higher if you discount 1 possible hand from each subsequent person, but that's just being picky lol), didn't think it would be that high. Nice to know for the future, never actually tried working out these numbers myself.I flat call here. Your way ahead of his range. I think that 1400 is still a large enough amount that the people behind you would not get involved in this hand considering your action without a hand, a large portion of which dominates your AT. I don't think an isolation play here really does much other than trap your still fairly sizable stack against a possible monster. If you had ~3000 behind you, I'd isolate, but here I just flat call. Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Math looks good (well slightly higher if you discount 1 possible hand from each subsequent person, but that's just being picky lol), didn't think it would be that high. Nice to know for the future, never actually tried working out these numbers myself.I flat call here. Your way ahead of his range. I think that 1400 is still a large enough amount that the people behind you would not get involved in this hand considering your action without a hand, a large portion of which dominates your AT. I don't think an isolation play here really does much other than trap your still fairly sizable stack against a possible monster. If you had ~3000 behind you, I'd isolate, but here I just flat call.Doesn't flat-calling scream "I'm ready to fold if one of you meanies comes over the top?" Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 ^^^I don't think there is any hand I would shove with here. I'm flat calling or I'm folding 99% of the time. If he was shoving <$1k then I'm raising to isolate.I felt this was a pretty easy call. Everyone behind me folded, UTG flipped QTo (yay), and I held (yay). Link to post Share on other sites
Jam-Fly 8 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You still have 3 people behind you.... yuck. Coinflip at best. Dominated at worst.Completely untrue.I call here most of the time. Folding is acceptable, but you need to capitalize on these marginally +EV situations to make money from MTTs.The other 3 people is a bit of a bitch but you can't raise. Flat call and hopefully, they won't raise. If they do, then you gotta fold. I think a 1200 more chips to the BB isn't a "I have to call ATC coz my odds are so good" scenario, so he'll only come in with an above average handI call. Link to post Share on other sites
pleazzzzzzzz 0 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 foldddd no brainer Link to post Share on other sites
Jam-Fly 8 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 ^^^I don't think there is any hand I would shove with here. I'm flat calling or I'm folding 99% of the time. If he was shoving <$1k then I'm raising to isolate.I felt this was a pretty easy call. Everyone behind me folded, UTG flipped QTo (yay), and I held (yay).Would you not shove AK?And what about the big pairs? I don't think there is alot of value in flat calling with AA, KK or QQ Link to post Share on other sites
Yahkin 0 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Would you not shove AK?And what about the big pairs? I don't think there is alot of value in flat calling with AA, KK or QQI would be more inclined to flat call with a big pair or AK in hopes one of the bigger stacks repops. I don't mind facing more than one opponent when one of them is short and already all in. Link to post Share on other sites
Jam-Fly 8 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I would be more inclined to flat call with a big pair or AK in hopes one of the bigger stacks repops. I don't mind facing more than one opponent when one of them is short and already all in.yeah, i see your reasoning but AK is a hand I like to see 5 cards.Like, say you call, and the BB flat calls. Then the flop comes J95, and he shoves with his Q9 (which is a reasonable play imo), what are you supposed to do? Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 Like, say you call, and the BB flat calls. Then the flop comes J95, and he shoves with his Q9 (which is a reasonable play imo), what are you supposed to do?Fold. Is that meant to be a tough decision? People rarely bluff dry side pots, so if he shoves on a flop you miss then you have an easy fold.How about this:UTG folds, and if folds to you with AT. You raise it to say $700, and the BB calls. The flop comes J95, and he shoves with his Q9 - what are you supposed to do?You see the similarity? Link to post Share on other sites
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