Official Toronto Maple Leafs Thread

[digitalmonkey 929]

what bs do you mean? Was I "trolling" or starting something with the Wilson stuff?I dont get it.

I don't understand Steve's post either.

[mrdannyg 274]

Its Leafs fans who hate everyone else, not the other way around.

I personally think Burke is the perfect guy to be the GM of the Leafs right now. He's loves the media which is a necessary skill in this market. He's honest without being a defensive Capt Queeg like Wilson is.

Lots of good stuff in this thread today, from all sides, but those were my two favourite lines. I know Serge will label me a leaf-hater because they're mostly negative, but goddamn are they true.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I will add this, along the lines of Bob's post.I really like Burke. I have always admired his attitude, found him to be a little too hostile at times, but liked that he pulled it back when necessary. I love that he shows his players he will stick up for them as much as possible, and that he'll treat them well. And most of all, I am convinced he is a good GM, and just might build this team into a contender. Most importantly, Im not conceded enough to think he doesnt know WAY more than I do, no matter how many pools I do, and how deep my research is. So when I say he f'ed up the Kessel deal, I do it with humility.In many ways, same goes for Wilson. I dont know the first thing about coaching NHL players. The guy must be good at it, since this is his 3rd job at least by my count. That said, its fair to criticize his demeanour, and I did it today, because last night was the first time this season that I watched a Leaf game. And last night was the first time I sat down with my son to watch a game in which he was interviewed. When i try to convince my son to be a fan of the Leafs, I dont want him thinking talkign to people like an ******* is ok as long as your the coach. That might not matter to most fans, it does to me. I was curious who else would care, thinking most wouldnt, so I asked the people on here cause this is one place where I value most opinions.If everytime I ask a question, I think its gonna offend someone, I stop asking.

[SBriand 4]

what bs do you mean? Was I "trolling" or starting something with the Wilson stuff?I dont get it.

Yeah, I don't think you got it because I wasn't talking about you. :)Like you said earlier, it's hard to post here because you have to think about it and try and phrase it in a way not to get things rolling they way they clearly do at the drop of the hat.I still don't know how to say what I see going on here without ruffling a few feathers but to me it seems as if leaf fans here, serge, jason etc, seem to try and find the negative in posts and then get all bent out of shape. Maybe because the last few years have been rough and they just automatically assume people are always going to post bad things. I don't see many negative posts here since the start of the season. But if there was anything negative, Leaf fans saw it and clearly got upset about it and actively seem to ignore the positive or as already stated, believe they are veiled compliments. That is just...well that's just kind of sad. I was honestly looking forward to seeing a change in things with the Leafs current success but it really changed nothing, this thread is still a minefield and I am sorry, but the Leaf fans perpetuate the issue, not the non-leaf fans.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I don't understand Steve's post either.

I think this discussion has been a good one to sort of let things out without it getting personal which it has in the past and hopefully will lead to a lot of balanced discussion and even disagreements.

[serge 904]

I hate to break it to you Serge, but it's a fact that the Leafs haven't won the Cup since 1967. Why don't you stop using the same old responses to avoid the actual topic of conversation?

The 1967 is so over played..How is what happened in the past affect what happens today ..Because it doesnt..BTW this board mirrors my real life exactly..Loser pop up on facebook the second the Leafs lose..Those same losers dont post anything after a Leafs win..Its the same with my friends..The text messages the phone calls are plentiful after a loss.

[Zach6668 513]

I'm going to guess you brought it all on yourself by going equally crazy and annoying when the Leafs start a season 4-0-1...

[gruven 530]

Yeah, I don't think you got it because I wasn't talking about you. :)Like you said earlier, it's hard to post here because you have to think about it and try and phrase it in a way not to get things rolling they way they clearly do at the drop of the hat.I still don't know how to say what I see going on here without ruffling a few feathers but to me it seems as if leaf fans here, serge, jason etc, seem to try and find the negative in posts and then get all bent out of shape. Maybe because the last few years have been rough and they just automatically assume people are always going to post bad things. I don't see many negative posts here since the start of the season. But if there was anything negative, Leaf fans saw it and clearly got upset about it and actively seem to ignore the positive or as already stated, believe they are veiled compliments. That is just...well that's just kind of sad. I was honestly looking forward to seeing a change in things with the Leafs current success but it really changed nothing, this thread is still a minefield and I am sorry, but the Leaf fans perpetuate the issue, not the non-leaf fans.

Bingo. It's funny too, because you can post anything about anyone in any other part of this forum and it just becomes real discussion. But say anything about the leafs, and it blows up. I remember great discussion last year about the shortcomings of Ovechkin as the Caps blew up in the playoffs. Now imagine if the cap were the leafs, and we started talking about that........

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Yeah, I don't think you got it because I wasn't talking about you. :)Like you said earlier, it's hard to post here because you have to think about it and try and phrase it in a way not to get things rolling they way they clearly do at the drop of the hat.I still don't know how to say what I see going on here without ruffling a few feathers but to me it seems as if leaf fans here, serge, jason etc, seem to try and find the negative in posts and then get all bent out of shape. Maybe because the last few years have been rough and they just automatically assume people are always going to post bad things. I don't see many negative posts here since the start of the season. But if there was anything negative, Leaf fans saw it and clearly got upset about it and actively seem to ignore the positive or as already stated, believe they are veiled compliments. That is just...well that's just kind of sad. I was honestly looking forward to seeing a change in things with the Leafs current success but it really changed nothing, this thread is still a minefield and I am sorry, but the Leaf fans perpetuate the issue, not the non-leaf fans.

A perfect example of this would be discussing the Leafs defense so far this year.Some guys like Kaberle and most of the time Scheen have played really well. Other like Gunnarsson have really stuggled but that happens to a lot of young players in their second year, that's why they call it the sophmore jinx.Then there is a Komisarek who whether it's related to injuries I don't know but is being exposed right now as somebody far too slow and maybe a little dumb. The way his career is tracking he might be a candidate for being Fingered in the future if he doesn't turn it around. I have a pretty good feeling that a lot of the Leafs skilled forwards have concerns about the Leaf defense.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

The 1967 is so over played..How is what happened in the past affect what happens today ..Because it doesnt..BTW this board mirrors my real life exactly..Loser pop up on facebook the second the Leafs lose..Those same losers dont post anything after a Leafs win..Its the same with my friends..The text messages the phone calls are plentiful after a loss.

Does it really matter? And dont you dish it out in spades? Be happy, you still got a pt in a game you didnt play that well in. (see how I used "you" instead of "they")

[digitalmonkey 929]

The 1967 is so over played..How is what happened in the past affect what happens today ..Because it doesnt..BTW this board mirrors my real life exactly..Loser pop up on facebook the second the Leafs lose..Those same losers dont post anything after a Leafs win..Its the same with my friends..The text messages the phone calls are plentiful after a loss.

Nobody claimed what happens in the past is affecting today. I simply brought up 1967 because you tried to compare the Leafs to the Yankees.Serge, you should put your efforts into a campaign trying to convince MLSE to sell the franchise. If the Leafs were owned by a guy like Jim Balsille or Mark Cuban I think they would win a Cup within 5 years!

[gruven 530]

A perfect example of this would be discussing the Leafs defense so far this year.Some guys like Kaberle and most of the time Scheen have played really well. Other like Gunnarsson have really stuggled but that happens to a lot of young players in their second year, that's why they call it the sophmore jinx.Then there is a Komisarek who whether it's related to injuries I don't know but is being exposed right now as somebody far too slow and maybe a little dumb. The way his career is tracking he might be a candidate for being Fingered in the future if he doesn't turn it around. I have a pretty good feeling that a lot of the Leafs skilled forwards have concerns about the Leaf defense.

[serge 904]

Yeah, I don't think you got it because I wasn't talking about you. :)Like you said earlier, it's hard to post here because you have to think about it and try and phrase it in a way not to get things rolling they way they clearly do at the drop of the hat.I still don't know how to say what I see going on here without ruffling a few feathers but to me it seems as if leaf fans here, serge, jason etc, seem to try and find the negative in posts and then get all bent out of shape. Maybe because the last few years have been rough and they just automatically assume people are always going to post bad things. I don't see many negative posts here since the start of the season. But if there was anything negative, Leaf fans saw it and clearly got upset about it and actively seem to ignore the positive or as already stated, believe they are veiled compliments. That is just...well that's just kind of sad. I was honestly looking forward to seeing a change in things with the Leafs current success but it really changed nothing, this thread is still a minefield and I am sorry, but the Leaf fans perpetuate the issue, not the non-leaf fans.

Show me what i posted since the season that started that perpetuated the issue...I have posted my jubilation, my appreciation of the fine play..Never once did i post HAHA CHRIS , HAHA DALE..Look you were wrong, you have no idea about hockey..NEVER did i post that...However when the topic comes to Ron Wilson is a dick, I am a loser for disagreeing with people..Generally it all comes down to that..Whateve ARP, Chris or Bob post is gospel..If I disagree I am a loser Leaf fan that has no objectivity...This is the reality of the situation.I am open for serious discussion on all topics..But I hate it when I am always branded the non objective leaf fan because I dont agree..Maybe it will come to light that Chris is the one that is non objective..Maybe it will come to light that the Toronto Media is the one that is non objective...Maybe these things wll come to light..But I doubt we will ever know because when these things come to light, we will never here about them...During the Leafs first two weeks of the season when we did everything right, there were no NON FCHL posts or topics that were worthy of discussion...Why? Because the only things that created discussion and people to post were negatives..Ron Wilson is a Dick discussion.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

A perfect example of this would be discussing the Leafs defense so far this year.Some guys like Kaberle and most of the time Scheen have played really well. Other like Gunnarsson have really stuggled but that happens to a lot of young players in their second year, that's why they call it the sophmore jinx.Then there is a Komisarek who whether it's related to injuries I don't know but is being exposed right now as somebody far too slow and maybe a little dumb. The way his career is tracking he might be a candidate for being Fingered in the future if he doesn't turn it around. I have a pretty good feeling that a lot of the Leafs skilled forwards have concerns about the Leaf defense.

I dont get it, I thought Komisarek was pretty decent in Montreal, and especially the second half of his last season there, I remember watching some games and thinking he was a beast. The guy looked like Pronger without the O, and thats a big compliment from me, cause I consider Pronger one of the first D I would take in the NHL in his prime. I thought the Leafs did very well to get him.Then again, I thought Finger was a good get too. What do I know. (granted even I knew they overpaid)

[digitalmonkey 929]

I dont get it, I thought Komisarek was pretty decent in Montreal, and especially the second half of his last season there, I remember watching some games and thinking he was a beast. The guy looked like Pronger without the O, and thats a big compliment from me, cause I consider Pronger one of the first D I would take in the NHL in his prime. I thought the Leafs did very well to get him.Then again, I thought Finger was a good get too. What do I know. (granted even I knew they overpaid)

Komisarik has not been nearly the same player since he lost that fight to Lucic.

[gruven 530]

I dont get it, I thought Komisarek was pretty decent in Montreal, and especially the second half of his last season there, I remember watching some games and thinking he was a beast. The guy looked like Pronger without the O, and thats a big compliment from me, cause I consider Pronger one of the first D I would take in the NHL in his prime. I thought the Leafs did very well to get him.Then again, I thought Finger was a good get too. What do I know. (granted even I knew they overpaid)

Montreal had a better backcheck scheme that allowed the Montreal 'D' to be aggressive. Toronto uses a different defensive scheme. That's why on occasion Phaneuf gets caught badly when he's aggressive. Not better or worse, neccessarily, just different...

[serge 904]

A perfect example of this would be discussing the Leafs defense so far this year.Some guys like Kaberle and most of the time Scheen have played really well. Other like Gunnarsson have really stuggled but that happens to a lot of young players in their second year, that's why they call it the sophmore jinx.Then there is a Komisarek who whether it's related to injuries I don't know but is being exposed right now as somebody far too slow and maybe a little dumb. The way his career is tracking he might be a candidate for being Fingered in the future if he doesn't turn it around. I have a pretty good feeling that a lot of the Leafs skilled forwards have concerns about the Leaf defense.

This is a pretty normal post that we can have discussions on..Kaberle has never looked better..Schenn is playing like the 1st round pick we drafted...Gunnarsson has been atrocious and thats why he was benched.Komisarek hasnt been great but I dont think you can compare him to Finger quite yet...Phaneuf is a monster out there ..Giveaways, but he makes everyone else better IMO.I dont agree with your comments in general though about the Leaf defense..

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I am open for serious discussion on all topics..But I hate it when I am always branded the non objective leaf fan because I dont agree.

In the entire history of this thread, is there an example of you disagreeing with someone, but YOU being on the side against the Leafs? Have you EVER said in this thread, "no, I think your wrong, they arent that good".You said something like that a few days ago, and I believe I posted that I fell off my chair. That was awesome, gave me serious hope.Its cause as much as I want to respect your hockey opinion, when it comes to the Leafs, I think your lying. Youd rather say the Leafs D are great, even if you think they are weak. Thats great if you want to be a loyal fan, I have no issues with that. But it just means I personally cant have a real, serious hockey discussion with you, if it involves the Leafs.and FWIW, there are others on here with the same type of attitude, maybe not as strict as Serge, but its there. But f it, everyone has their faults.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Show me what i posted since the season that started that perpetuated the issue...I have posted my jubilation, my appreciation of the fine play..Never once did i post HAHA CHRIS , HAHA DALE..Look you were wrong, you have no idea about hockey..NEVER did i post that...However when the topic comes to Ron Wilson is a dick, I am a loser for disagreeing with people..Generally it all comes down to that..Whateve ARP, Chris or Bob post is gospel..If I disagree I am a loser Leaf fan that has no objectivity...This is the reality of the situation.I am open for serious discussion on all topics..But I hate it when I am always branded the non objective leaf fan because I dont agree..Maybe it will come to light that Chris is the one that is non objective..Maybe it will come to light that the Toronto Media is the one that is non objective...Maybe these things wll come to light..But I doubt we will ever know because when these things come to light, we will never here about them...During the Leafs first two weeks of the season when we did everything right, there were no NON FCHL posts or topics that were worthy of discussion...Why? Because the only things that created discussion and people to post were negatives..Ron Wilson is a Dick discussion.

I would take the time to put together a bunch of your posts, but it would surely be deleted. Seriously though...Ron Wilson is a dick!Come on! "Ron Wilson Dick" is still not even on the first page of a google search.P.S. Serge, I like Bozek's hair.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Show me what i posted since the season that started that perpetuated the issue...I have posted my jubilation, my appreciation of the fine play..Never once did i post HAHA CHRIS , HAHA DALE..Look you were wrong, you have no idea about hockey..NEVER did i post that...However when the topic comes to Ron Wilson is a dick, I am a loser for disagreeing with people..Generally it all comes down to that..Whateve ARP, Chris or Bob post is gospel..If I disagree I am a loser Leaf fan that has no objectivity...This is the reality of the situation.I am open for serious discussion on all topics..But I hate it when I am always branded the non objective leaf fan because I dont agree..Maybe it will come to light that Chris is the one that is non objective..Maybe it will come to light that the Toronto Media is the one that is non objective...Maybe these things wll come to light..But I doubt we will ever know because when these things come to light, we will never here about them...During the Leafs first two weeks of the season when we did everything right, there were no NON FCHL posts or topics that were worthy of discussion...Why? Because the only things that created discussion and people to post were negatives..Ron Wilson is a Dick discussion.

I don't think anybody expects impartiality from you and we all expect and respect that you're going to look at things in the most positive light.The problem comes about when a chance for a serious discussion like the is Wilson a dick ones comes up you come out with all this hater crap and talking about others only pointing out negatives. I personally don't feel a need to come and post about what a great game the Leafs played when they win because I know you and a few of the others who are bigger fans than I am will have that covered.I'm going to discuss the leafs more than other teams because I'm in Toronto and I am a fan of the team. I want them to do well more than any other team in the league. What I'm not is a fanatic.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I don't think anybody expects impartiality from you and we all expect and respect that you're going to look at things in the most positive light.The problem comes about when a chance for a serious discussion like the is Wilson a dick ones comes up you come out with all this hater crap and talking about others only pointing out negatives. I personally don't feel a need to come and post about what a great game the Leafs played when they win because I know you and a few of the others who are bigger fans than I am will have that covered.I'm going to discuss the leafs more than other teams because I'm in Toronto and I am a fan of the team. I want them to do well more than any other team in the league. What I'm not is a fanatic.

I like this!Kopecky for Toews is still on the table, Bob.

[serge 904]

I don't think anybody expects impartiality from you and we all expect and respect that you're going to look at things in the most positive light.The problem comes about when a chance for a serious discussion like the is Wilson a dick ones comes up you come out with all this hater crap and talking about others only pointing out negatives. I personally don't feel a need to come and post about what a great game the Leafs played when they win because I know you and a few of the others who are bigger fans than I am will have that covered.I'm going to discuss the leafs more than other teams because I'm in Toronto and I am a fan of the team. I want them to do well more than any other team in the league. What I'm not is a fanatic.

Yes ok thats fine..But when certain people have constantly put down the team, and constantly put down the moves they made should come in and say they MIGHT have been wrong a little bit.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Yes ok thats fine..But when certain people have constantly put down the team, and constantly put down the moves they made should come in and say they MIGHT have been wrong a little bit.

If I thought I was wrong I would tell you.If Kessel scores 50 goals this year I still don't think the Kessel trade was a good trade for a rebuilding team.

[serge 904]

If I thought I was wrong I would tell you.If Kessel scores 50 goals this year I still don't think the Kessel trade was a good trade for a rebuilding team.

If the Leafs win the cup in the next 3 years, then what you say.

[digitalmonkey 929]

If the Leafs win the cup in the next 3 years, then what you say.

If the Leafs win the Cup in the next 3 years and Kessel is a part of the team (or they trade him for a vital piece) then I will definitely say I was wrong.If the Leafs don't win the Cup in that time will you admit you were wrong or will you just dismiss it like you dismissed the Wellwood...the Stahlberg...the _____________ talk?