Steve7stud Training Program

[El Guapo 8]

500 bucks a month is ALOT of money to alot of people on this forum(myself included)

I think what I said was if $500 a month is a lot to you then his program probably does not apply to you, and it sounded like it did not.Also for daily contact for coaching for any profession that is cheap. Like I said in a previous post for my profession you can expect to pay $500-$1000 amonth and get a MAXIMUM 4 one hour phone calls. That is somewhere in the range of 125-250 per hour. And that is on the cheap side.

[El Guapo 8]

I'm going to speak honestly here about why some people on this forum have a slightly worse opinion of Steve. The main fact is that whenever he makes the first post for a training service, he makes it sound like a free service to the FCP Community that he is going to do to benefit other players out of the goodness of his heart and because he enjoys it, and likes most of the people here. The fact that he never mentions a fee for his services in his OP is just a little shady in the eyes of many people.That's like somebody saying "Sir, I am ready to give you a brand new car!""Really, a new car?""Yep, just $450 a month for this brand new car!"The way he puts it out there is kinda shady, and the way most FCPers adore him for putting out this "Great service to the FCP Community" is ridiculous. He could find students anywhere, he just knows that there are a lot of players here, and a lot of good players who would benefit, and most importantly are willing to put up $3k for 6 months of training.The final thing is that most of us here don't get the training. Everytime I look at one of these posts, the question still remains "Soooo... What exactly does he do?" The whole "Teach you to be a lifelong winner" thing just seems weird when they say he doesn't go over technical aspects of hands. I spoke with TB17 at Turning Stone and I didn't really feel like I got an exact answer out of him about what Steve did.I am sure the training is very helpful for those who have it, and I wish everybody the best of luck who does decide to train with Steve, I'm just pointing out some of the reasons some of us have a slightly lower opinion of Steve.

This has probably been the most well put together post on the other side of the fence and I actually agreee with some of what he said.

[nutzbuster 7]

One word.Metatraining.

[WhatArunAA 0]

I think what I said was if $500 a month is a lot to you then his program probably does not apply to you, and it sounded like it did not.Also for daily contact for coaching for any profession that is cheap. Like I said in a previous post for my profession you can expect to pay $500-$1000 amonth and get a MAXIMUM 4 one hour phone calls. That is somewhere in the range of 125-250 per hour. And that is on the cheap side.

no its really not cheap at all.. its not like this is hands on 1 on 1 training for 6 months straight.. its nothing like that at all. Of course when you compare it to people paying for other services it looks like pennies.. the truth is.. I don't think its worth the 3k cost... its obscene really. You need to look at what you are paying for??? What is this 500 dollars per month getting me??

[RDog 0]

Uh oh.

[Mercury69 3]

This is turning into a very good dissection/discussion.For my part, I think it's very important for the individual to have a sense that their money is being put to very good use and I get that sense from most of Steve's students.What's more is that I think Zimmer and Whatarunna's posts add value to the discussion simply because it sheds some "reality" light on the whole expense thing. I'm sure everyone's checked out PXF or Cardrunners and what do you see there? A bunch of testimonials from HAPPY, SATISFIED customers. That's fine, but what about the people who DIDN'T get the value they expected. I thin stuff like that is just as valuable.From what I gether, Steve does daily analysis of performance, entertains questions of all sorts and molds the player. As someone said, he doesn't try to change their style, he seems to try and enhance that player's natural abilities into a winning style. This is similar to the style of coaches and mentors in a high number of sports. When I was serious into karate, my best instructors were the ones who recognized what I was capable of and helped keep my within my limits while trying to enhance the strengths and eliminate the weaknesses, rather than change me around. But I was quite good, so that didn't matter much lol.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

no its really not cheap at all.. its not like this is hands on 1 on 1 training for 6 months straight.. its nothing like that at all. Of course when you compare it to people paying for other services it looks like pennies.. the truth is.. I don't think its worth the 3k cost... its obscene really. You need to look at what you are paying for??? What is this 500 dollars per month getting me??

In comparison to similar programs, it is cheap. Most of the good coaches on 2+2 want a great deal more. 500 bucks would get you *maybe* two hours with most of them, and it would be strictly hand histories. Obscene is a bit strong, since, there's the high likelihood of a stake, afterward. And I've never heard of any of his students becoming losing players all of a sudden, but, we have heard of several become very succesful.Edit: Zimmer raised some very good points though. I'd also be curious about FCP's policy regarding coaching. If I made this post, would it get deleted?

[WhatArunAA 0]

This is turning into a very good dissection/discussion.For my part, I think it's very important for the individual to have a sense that their money is being put to very good use and I get that sense from most of Steve's students.What's more is that I think Zimmer and Whatarunna's posts add value to the discussion simply because it sheds some "reality" light on the whole expense thing. I'm sure everyone's checked out PXF or Cardrunners and what do you see there? A bunch of testimonials from HAPPY, SATISFIED customers. That's fine, but what about the people who DIDN'T get the value they expected. I thin stuff like that is just as valuable.

of course there is unsatisfied people with any business venture.. but the truth is you can cut your losses with pxf.. with Steves program its 3k up front(unless special circumstances arise).. so basically if you are unsatisfied with training you just gotta eat a -3k loss?

[WhatArunAA 0]

for the record I didn't mean the way some things came out in earlier posts.. I just don't think this particular training is worth 3,000 dollars.

[poguemahone68 0]

my experience with this group has been anything but positive. I applied to be a student of Steve the first time and got no response to my pm. I thought that was lame even if I wasn't the kind of student he was looking for.i've also tried to chat with a lot of his students on here or at the tables and have never gotten a response from any of you, except Josh and that's because I met him in vegas on 06.cfinn said hi to me in the ftops last night, but I'm not sure if cfinn is one of steve's students.So yeah, don't think I'll be applying this time around. good luck to those who do this though, seems like it helped a lot of you become more well-rounded poker players.

[El Guapo 8]

no its really not cheap at all.. its not like this is hands on 1 on 1 training for 6 months straight.. its nothing like that at all. Of course when you compare it to people paying for other services it looks like pennies.. the truth is.. I don't think its worth the 3k cost... its obscene really. You need to look at what you are paying for??? What is this 500 dollars per month getting me??

From the others that have been in the program said they got to call/e mail/IM him pretty much any time during the day and then they have 4-5 sit downs a year and other personal contact. I am going to repreat myself here, if this is true (and I am basing my assumption reading other posts) then it is a bargain. Do you have any idea, regardless of the profession what 1 on 1 training for 6 months straight would cost. probably 30 - 60K depending on hours and intesity of the profession.Hell I know guys that in 2 weeks are paying $1,000 to go to a one day presentation by a top financial advisor that make 3 Million a year and that is half the cost, it is normally 2k but our compnay is paying half if we want to go. I have sat in on a partial presentation from this guy, he is not telling me any knew estate planning regs that will help my clients, he is teaching how to be better at what you do from a whole plethora of aspects.

[WhatArunAA 0]

From the others that have been in the program said they got to call/e mail/IM him pretty much any time during the day and then they have 4-5 sit downs a year and other personal contact. I am going to repreat myself here, if this is true (and I am basing my assumption reading other posts) then it is a bargain. Do you have any idea, regardless of the profession what 1 on 1 training for 6 months straight would cost. probably 30 - 60K depending on hours and intesity of the profession.Hell I know guys that in 2 weeks are paying $1,000 to go to a one day presentation by a top financial advisor that make 3 Million a year and that is half the cost, it is normally 2k but our compnay is paying half if we want to go. I have sat in on a partial presentation from this guy, he is not telling me any knew estate planning regs that will help my clients, he is teaching how to be better at what you do from a whole plethora of aspects.

well I wish you the best of luck in this program... it seems to have worked for the majority of the people and I hope you are another one.

[Dratj 0]

I'm going to speak honestly here about why some people on this forum have a slightly worse opinion of Steve. The main fact is that whenever he makes the first post for a training service, he makes it sound like a free service to the FCP Community that he is going to do to benefit other players out of the goodness of his heart and because he enjoys it, and likes most of the people here. The fact that he never mentions a fee for his services in his OP is just a little shady in the eyes of many people.That's like somebody saying "Sir, I am ready to give you a brand new car!""Really, a new car?""Yep, just $450 a month for this brand new car!"The way he puts it out there is kinda shady, and the way most FCPers adore him for putting out this "Great service to the FCP Community" is ridiculous. He could find students anywhere, he just knows that there are a lot of players here, and a lot of good players who would benefit, and most importantly are willing to put up $3k for 6 months of training.The final thing is that most of us here don't get the training. Everytime I look at one of these posts, the question still remains "Soooo... What exactly does he do?" The whole "Teach you to be a lifelong winner" thing just seems weird when they say he doesn't go over technical aspects of hands. I spoke with TB17 at Turning Stone and I didn't really feel like I got an exact answer out of him about what Steve did.I am sure the training is very helpful for those who have it, and I wish everybody the best of luck who does decide to train with Steve, I'm just pointing out some of the reasons some of us have a slightly lower opinion of Steve.

The above is basically how I feel about his whole thing. Stevo capitalizing on JC's initial success, spam here to get students and like zimmer saids Steve makes it sounds like it's free at first. Why is he not tutoring low limit players with small bankrolls? It's because they can't pay. I don't mind him charging for a service but it's just shady the way he goes about it. Since one of his students came out of silence, I might as well go over my own experience with him. He saids he likes my email and wants to talk on MSN. I'm excited and he starts to ask me some questions. What limits do you play? What's your bankroll? What do you do for a living? Now, I tell him that I have a 8k bankroll and that I'm a dentist. Then all of a sudden, he springs up the 3k on me. I guess he figured out I could afford his training. Part of it is my fault thinking that it would have been free. It's like getting a free trip not expecting someone to sell you timeshare.

[nutzbuster 7]

a recent S7S graduate..."...I LOVE STEVE....HE IS THE BEST......ALL YOU CRITICS MUST DIE..."Sorry Steve, couldn't resist. Some of you folks just don't get it. This is NOT for everyone.peace out.

[davezz5 0]

I would venture to say that it isn't whether it is $500 a month or $5000 a month that is important. The most important aspect would be is it worth the money you have to pay for the service? Most of his former students seem more than happy, whereas a smaller percentage less so. It might be prudent to get a full breakdown of what the training consists of and whether you feel it would benefit you.

[TB17 0]

Uh oh.

Uh oh is right.

[Dratj 0]

a recent S7S graduate..."...I LOVE STEVE....HE IS THE BEST......ALL YOU CRITICS MUST DIE..."Sorry Steve, couldn't resist. Some of you folks just don't get it. This is NOT for everyone.peace out.

I agree nutz. I'd take a course on how to enjoy life from you anytime.

[ajs510 122]

Since one of his students came out of silence, I might as well go over my own experience with him. He saids he likes my email and wants to talk on MSN. I'm excited and he starts to ask me some questions. What limits do you play? What's your bankroll? What do you do for a living? Now, I tell him that I have a 8k bankroll and that I'm a dentist. Then all of a sudden, he springs up the 3k on me. I guess he figured out I could afford his training. Part of it is my fault thinking that it would have been free. It's like getting a free trip not expecting someone to sell you timeshare.

This was my exact experience as well, it wasn't until the 4th or 5th PM between us when he was recruiting his second group of students that he ever mentioned the fact that he charges a significant amount of money for this training. There's nothing wrong with expecting to be paid for your efforts, but in my opinion it's unprofessional and more than a little shady not to have that part of the deal be well above board from the start.

[eYank 0]

I just want to say, there have been many players who I have noticed who came out of this and have been succesful, he has results which is something you cant argue with

[zimmer4141 0]

I don't get why people are saying "uh oh". Is it because people are expressing their honest opinions on a poker forum? Because that just spells trouble everytime.

[NoSup4U 0]

of course there is unsatisfied people with any business venture.. but the truth is you can cut your losses with pxf.. with Steves program its 3k up front(unless special circumstances arise).. so basically if you are unsatisfied with training you just gotta eat a -3k loss?

I have no idea what Steve's policies are on this, but all poker trainers I know, (and there was a big thread on this at 2p2) will just pro-rate your time and refund you the difference. This makes good business sense, and is common in any business really.Mark

[El Guapo 8]

I am by no means defending Steve on the way he delivers his message about the cost, but maybe he wants to make sure the people are serious before he talks to them anymore and brings up cost. I do the same thing, I am not going to meet with someone and immediately tell them its $500 for a plan, that can be a little offputting, we talk, gauge interest and then talk about how things work. Its not the same as buying a computer, you know you have to pay for it and you shop for the best price, this is the oppsoite of that, so I guess I understand where he is coming from a little more than some of the others.

[TB17 0]

I don't get why people are saying "uh oh". Is it because people are expressing their honest opinions on a poker forum? Because that just spells trouble everytime.

I smell drama. Hence the uh oh.Most people felt bamboozled when gthey see the fee for the first time, but now that it's out there, is it ok to let it go? He himself gave the price like 3 pages behind.

[WhatArunAA 0]

I am by no means defending Steve on the way he delivers his message about the cost, but maybe he wants to make sure the people are serious before he talks to them anymore and brings up cost. I do the same thing, I am not going to meet with someone and immediately tell them its $500 for a plan, that can be a little offputting, we talk, gauge interest and then talk about how things work. Its not the same as buying a computer, you know you have to pay for it and you shop for the best price, this is the oppsoite of that, so I guess I understand where he is coming from a little more than some of the others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch

[NoSup4U 0]

I don't get why people are saying "uh oh". Is it because people are expressing their honest opinions on a poker forum? Because that just spells trouble everytime.

uh oh...;)Mark