Passivetarding Aces

[NoSup4U 0]

So should I felt since I played it so weakly? Villian is unknown to me, but is a good 2p2er who seems aggro based on his name and the 15 mins we've played together.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $3/$65 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1225.60CO: $639.25NoSup4U: $968SB: $671.40BB: $585Pre-flop: (5 players) NoSup4U is Button with A A UTG raises to $21, CO folds, NoSup4U calls, 2 folds.Flop: 3 2 Q ($51, 2 players)UTG bets $36, NoSup4U calls.Turn: 8 ($123, 2 players)UTG checks, NoSup4U bets $100, UTG raises to $311, NoSup4U calls.River: 9 ($745, 2 players)UTG is all-in $857.6Mark

[NoBBiR 0]

So should I felt since I played it so weakly? Villian is unknown to me, but is a good 2p2er who seems aggro based on his name and the 15 mins we've played together.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $3/$65 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1225.60CO: $639.25NoSup4U: $968SB: $671.40BB: $585Pre-flop: (5 players) NoSup4U is Button with A A UTG raises to $21, CO folds, NoSup4U calls, 2 folds.Flop: 3 2 Q ($51, 2 players)UTG bets $36, NoSup4U calls.Turn: 8 ($123, 2 players)UTG checks, NoSup4U bets $100, UTG raises to $311, NoSup4U calls.River: 9 ($745, 2 players)UTG is all-in $857.6Mark

He's aggro based on his name, hahahah. :)KK much? Would he make this play with AQ? I think he doesn't think you're very strong because you've underrepped your hand and does this with just TPTK or Kings. I think a lot of the time you're ahead here. Just hope he didn't turn a 2 outer on you.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Don't go broke calling with one pair.

[sabes99 0]

yea i think it's basically go broke time right here for you...if he has 8-8 or something then gl to him

[shinzilla 0]

QQ, KK, AQ seem likely here... as do 33, 22, 88. However, as NoBBiR said, we've underrepped our hand so much here that it's hard for us not to call.

[TraptSteve 0]

yea i think it's basically go broke time right here for you...if he has 8-8 or something then gl to him

Nice sig - great movie.Hmm, about this hand. Looks like you elected to play a small pot based on your preflop and flop action... The problem is he made what is a standard looking continuation bet on the flop and you simply called, when you should have put in a raise of about 100 more. It is hard to him to continue on such a dry flop without a hand. As played, I think the turn should be a raise or fold situation; i'm not just going to smooth call then pay off some weird draw that shouldn't have got there on the river.I guess you could have folded the turn since you played the hand so passively to that point. Dont think AQ/KK/AA (strong one pair hands) are going to be checking the turn when they had the betting lead, especially against someone who's only called to that point. A turn c/r attempt would be very risky with these holdings - i'd imagine you're beat-

[Lavitz 0]

Wow this is a SICK spot.3 bet this preflop for sure. I think not 3 betting when you guys are so deep is a big mistake. As for hand, wow. This is a very sick spot. Board is rainbow and only hands I can see him doing this with that we beat is some sort of combo draw he picked up on turn, like KQss or 45ss or some other flush draw. I really don't like playing AQo like this at all. Maybe KK. There is always remote possibility he is doing this with air because he thinks you floated flop or are weak. Ugh this spot is nastttyyyy. What are his PT numbers and what is your image?Also, for further emphasis, I really really like 3 betting this p-flop since we''re so deep.

[simo_8ball 0]

I pay him off here if he has QQ, JsTs or 88. You're getting over 2:1, so you only need to beat 30% of his range. I think he could have AK gone mad here or maybe KK.

[krup24 0]

I payoff here as well

[HoosierAlum 0]

History would be nice as it pretty much comes down to whether or not he would do this for value w/less (kk pretty much the only hand he would). Seems like a puke/swear/whine/ fold (on river)

[mtdesmoines 3]

It's nearly impossible to assign a holding to him here. You've been weaksauce the entire hand. If there's any way he holds KK making a PF raise to $21, I call. I don't know that he does this with AQ. Seems like he did move to protect a little bit when draws materialized on the turn. Either way -- calling or folding -- is pure gambling in my mind, because we've not defined anyone's hand. I dunno. Properly rolled, I call. Short rolled, I fold. And I know that's bad, but that's the way this situation hits me.

[NoSup4U 0]

History would be nice as it pretty much comes down to whether or not he would do this for value w/less (kk pretty much the only hand he would). Seems like a puke/swear/whine/ fold (on river)

The villian is DOOMSWITCH on FTP, who I believe is tcorbin/-Get Loo$e- on 2p2/Stars, if that makes any difference to you.Mark

[sabes99 0]

Nice sig - great movie.

i never thought i'd see the next great american movie until i saw that one

Hmm, about this hand. Looks like you elected to play a small pot based on your preflop and flop action... The problem is he made what is a standard looking continuation bet on the flop and you simply called, when you should have put in a raise of about 100 more. It is hard to him to continue on such a dry flop without a hand. As played, I think the turn should be a raise or fold situation; i'm not just going to smooth call then pay off some weird draw that shouldn't have got there on the river.I guess you could have folded the turn since you played the hand so passively to that point. Dont think AQ/KK/AA (strong one pair hands) are going to be checking the turn when they had the betting lead, especially against someone who's only called to that point. A turn c/r attempt would be very risky with these holdings - i'd imagine you're beat-

i think calling the turn is ok, because you just want to see one more card and maybe develop a better read on him...obv that plan backfired since he made the overbet shove, and now since we underrepped we pretty much have to call

[HoosierAlum 0]

The villian is DOOMSWITCH on FTP, who I believe is tcorbin/-Get Loo$e- on 2p2/Stars, if that makes any difference to you.Mark

meh haven't played a ton w/him. Pretty sure he is solid though, you have to fold I think. (or close eyes and call and pray for kk, but puke when he shows a set or something like J10ss)

[Acid_Knight 2]

we've underrepped our hand so much here that it's hard for us not to call.

This is pretty much NEVER a reason to call. Big deal if we've underrepped our hand? We still have one pair and we're repped that pretty effectively. Basically we're putting 100% on KK if we're gonna make this call becuase I don't think he goes nuts with AQ or worse like this since it's possible that we can have a set or maybe even 2 pair.Mark,This is kind of gross. I agree with the others that siad that this deep, it's a little more important to 3 bet preflop I think just becuase you want to get a better idea of what he's holding.As this plays out, I like the line that you took. I think where I might change course is on the turn. I don't hate a push on the turn here. His c/r is weird and I could definitely see KK playing exactly like this. That being said, the board is exceedingly dry with the exception of that flush draw (do we think he c/r the turn with JTss?) and there's nothing wrong with calling.On the river, we just gotta ask what hands is he pushing for value? You could easily have a set the way this played out, so it's kind of dangerous for him to be pushing a one pair hand, even KK, on the end there. I guess it's a tossup. I know that AQ and KK are the same hand on the spectrum of things, but I feel that he might push KK and make a different bet with AQ. I just don't think we're beating much other than a bluff.I think my first instinct is to fold this river, but it's close either way. We have ok pot odds, but there aren't many hands that we beat.

[NoSup4U 0]

Mark,This is kind of gross. I agree with the others that siad that this deep, it's a little more important to 3 bet preflop I think just becuase you want to get a better idea of what he's holding.

*nod* there are good and bad things about this. Being super deep actually decreases the value of my hand. The blinds were active, and really I was hoping one would pick up something to 3bet with, because villian's opening range is pretty wide.I believe where I misplayed this hand is by not checking behind on the turn. If I do, then we can't play for stacks. If I get check raised there (which is likely from an aggro villian with atc) I am in the position of playing for stacks. I believe this is the key part of the hand and why I posted it.

As this plays out, I like the line that you took. I think where I might change course is on the turn. I don't hate a push on the turn here. His c/r is weird and I could definitely see KK playing exactly like this. That being said, the board is exceedingly dry with the exception of that flush draw (do we think he c/r the turn with JTss?) and there's nothing wrong with calling.On the river, we just gotta ask what hands is he pushing for value? You could easily have a set the way this played out, so it's kind of dangerous for him to be pushing a one pair hand, even KK, on the end there. I guess it's a tossup. I know that AQ and KK are the same hand on the spectrum of things, but I feel that he might push KK and make a different bet with AQ. I just don't think we're beating much other than a bluff.I think my first instinct is to fold this river, but it's close either way. We have ok pot odds, but there aren't many hands that we beat.

On the river, I was only worried about 2 hands: 88 possibly, or JTss. I really think he bets 88 on the turn instead of check raising with it though, because he has to put me in tptk ish type hand and its likely I check it behind. In the end, I called because: 1) my line looked like a float through his check raise on the turn. Once I called that, my hand seems really apparent. (tptk) And villian is certainly good enough to know that I won't call a river shove with AQ there.2) I have a rule that if I under rep my hand, I need an exceedingly good reason to fold it against a villian who should have some idea of what it 'looks' like I have3) He shoves KK for value there4) My pot odds pretty good once i call turn. Just be right 1/3 times.5) unless he has 22, 33, or QQ (all unlikely given he checked turn imo) or 88 or KK, his line on the turn doesn't make sense other than to bluff me off a float.Results:Villian had 95s, picked up the flush draw on the turn, and decided to try and shove me off AQ I think.He berated me for 5 mins after the hand.Villian: omgVillian: you are going to be my donkeyMe: heehawVillian: (to player to my left) bigjohn, I'll buy your seat off you for whatever price you wantetcMark

[Acid_Knight 2]

Yeah, I guess his whole range is really made up of 3 things. A busted flush draw, KK and 88. I guess since we're beating all of that unless he TURNED a set on us, I can live with the results.Against good competent villains like this one, the whole underrepping your hand thing can make a difference if you think to yourself "his line really looks like he's trying to run me off of top pair, but I have an overpair, so I have to call" or something like that. I dunno, I just think it's a reason that too many players use to call in bad spots.This spot isn't terrible I guess. FWIW, I think a check behind on the turn would be terrible. You miss all value from worse hands and you don't charge him anything if he picked up a spade draw. I'd rather shove the turn than be calling this river also.Either way, nice hand.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Villian: omgVillian: you are going to be my donkeyMe: heehaw

Just point out that he's the idiot who tried to bluff a donkey off of AA.

[PoppinFresh 0]

checking behind on the turn is no goot, if you're going to do that don't flatcall AA preflopAs for the hand I fold the turn since he's unknown. I really doubt anyone is playing AQ/KK like this for value without some history, they won't assume you are going to stack off with a Q for 160bb. Given this, our hand isn't underrepped at all. When we bet the turn we're repping a Q or better, and our hand is only very marginally better than KQ here.

[Acid_Knight 2]

checking behind on the turn is really bad, if you're going to do that don't flatcall AA preflop

They have a term for this.Oh yeah, weak tight.Very profitable.

[NoSup4U 0]

checking behind on the turn is no goot, if you're going to do that don't flatcall AA preflop

Dammit how come I continue to suck so bad!!! After he raised me on the turn, I was like: gawd I suck, why didn't I just check behind???Really though, are a lot of players calling the turn with just a random flush draw? Seems like crappy odds cause most likely they aren't stacking me? (Unless they know I'll call a psb with AA i guess ) So I'm not really looking to extract more from villian on turn, just get another psb on the river.Mark

[NoSup4U 0]

They have a term for this.Oh yeah, weak tight.Very profitable.

I think the problem here is, you and Poppin are both too good to really understand the correct way to passivetard a pair of aces.:)Mark(sw obv)

[Acid_Knight 2]

I think the problem here is, you and Poppin are both too good to really understand the correct way to passivetard a pair of aces.

I Beg To Differ

[Lavitz 0]

The villian is DOOMSWITCH on FTP, who I believe is tcorbin/-Get Loo$e- on 2p2/Stars, if that makes any difference to you.Mark

Ok then snap call. Hahah no but seriously against this guy it is a call. He is one of the more aggrotards and spewish regs at FTP I think and I don't mind felting here against him because I've seen him do some stupid things.

This is pretty much NEVER a reason to call. Big deal if we've underrepped our hand?

The fact we underrepped our hand can't be underestimated and can be a huge factor in whether to call or fold. If we underrep our hand villain is much more likely to bluff or stab or fire thinking he is value betting when in fact we have him beat. On given hand I think it isn't a call because we underrepped, rather because of given villain and a flush draw which showed up on turn.

[NoSup4U 0]

I Beg To Differ

Man as usual you're on top of things!!NH :)Mark