Facing A Min C/r On An Ugly Board

[shinzilla 0]

Villain's stats read 50/5.5/6. Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)CO ($50.15)Hero ($51.20)SB ($60.10)BB ($50.55)UTG ($29.60)MP ($54.40)Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J. 2 folds, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, 2 folds, CO calls $2.Flop: ($5.75) 4, T, 6(2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $4, CO raises to $8, Hero calls $4.Turn: ($21.75) 8(2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $15, CO raises to $39.65 (All-In), Hero calls $24.65.River: ($101.05) J(2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $101.05What do we think?

[litlebullet 0]

edited out for some reason i thought you rivered a boat. anyway, I think your decision was on the flop. I'd have prob gone broke on that hand and played it the exact same way you did though.

[sabes99 0]

i think you make a bigger bet on the flop, it might be more effective in pushing draws away...but at any rate, i think you fold on the turn, he check-raised the flop and turn, and all you have is the jacks with no draw, no way it's any good IMO...methinks he flopped the nut flush

[Snamuh 0]

I fold here against almost all villains. His LAGtardness makes me think again here but you really only have jacks on a scary board. I think it's easy to find a fold to his second C/R here.

[rdtedm 0]

When I played .25/.50, I never saw 200bb pots. Anyways, this could be a set just as much as a flush/flush draw. I see a lot of people at this limit who overprotect their hands when they flop a good hand on a scary board. That being said, a ton of people also over bet the nut flush draw.

[Ricer98 0]

Why bet the turn here? We have the worst over pair on a 3 flush board, not to mention being check min raised on the flop. I don't see any reason to bet the turn here. All it does is bloat the pot way bigger than I would want it to be in this spot. We are not a big favorite over anthing that calls us here, and we get raised by most hands that are beating us. Any hand consisting of a pair and a flush draw is close to 50-50 against us. We hold a 60-40 edge over a flush draw with an over card. Against a flush draw and two overs we are actually a 52-48 dog. It could be argued, but I think thats pretty much the villians calling range of hands we're ahead of. Not many one pair hands without a flush draw are calling here, which is the only thing we are a decient favorite against. I'd much rather check behind on the turn and keep the pot smaller for the river.

[Money022 0]

Check behind on the turn. Why on earth are you leading into a player after he just donk mini check-raised you on the flop?

[whiterice714 0]

Why bet the turn here? We have the worst over pair on a 3 flush board, not to mention being check min raised on the flop. I don't see any reason to bet the turn here. All it does is bloat the pot way bigger than I would want it to be in this spot. We are not a big favorite over anthing that calls us here, and we get raised by most hands that are beating us. Any hand consisting of a pair and a flush draw is close to 50-50 against us. We hold a 60-40 edge over a flush draw with an over card. Against a flush draw and two overs we are actually a 52-48 dog. It could be argued, but I think thats pretty much the villians calling range of hands we're ahead of. Not many one pair hands without a flush draw are calling here, which is the only thing we are a decient favorite against. I'd much rather check behind on the turn and keep the pot smaller for the river.

Check behind on the turn. Why on earth are you leading into a player after he just donk mini check-raised you on the flop?

[shinzilla 0]

Why bet the turn here? We have the worst over pair on a 3 flush board, not to mention being check min raised on the flop. I don't see any reason to bet the turn here. All it does is bloat the pot way bigger than I would want it to be in this spot. We are not a big favorite over anthing that calls us here, and we get raised by most hands that are beating us. Any hand consisting of a pair and a flush draw is close to 50-50 against us. We hold a 60-40 edge over a flush draw with an over card. Against a flush draw and two overs we are actually a 52-48 dog. It could be argued, but I think thats pretty much the villians calling range of hands we're ahead of. Not many one pair hands without a flush draw are calling here, which is the only thing we are a decient favorite against. I'd much rather check behind on the turn and keep the pot smaller for the river.

I'd take another look at those turn odds you posted; they're not exactly right. If we were talking about an all-in situation on the flop, they would be correct, but this isn't the case. I think we need to think about what kind of hands he would min c/r the flop and check the turn with... would checking behind really be the right play against his range?

[Merby 3]

I'd take another look at those turn odds you posted; they're not exactly right. If we were talking about an all-in situation on the flop, they would be correct, but this isn't the case. I think we need to think about what kind of hands he would min c/r the flop and check the turn with... would checking behind really be the right play against his range?

Don't play big pots with moderate holdings.It's so important, I'll say that againDon't play big pots with moderate holdingsNow as with all poker advice, this statement is not an absolute (eg. versus a maniac, this can be profitable, although it will be a high variance play). Nevertheless, you have the weakest overpair and could be already drawing dead. Why not check behind for pot control, and decide on the river based on the villian's river action and the river card.

[CrazyJoe 0]

Don't play big pots with moderate holdings.It's so important, I'll say that againDon't play big pots with moderate holdingsNow as with all poker advice, this statement is not an absolute (eg. versus a maniac, this can be profitable, although it will be a high variance play). Nevertheless, you have the weakest overpair and could be already drawing dead. Why not check behind for pot control, and decide on the river based on the villian's river action and the river card.

It's true, not worth it unless you are against big maniacs, ESPECIALLY when you are in position and controlling the pot size, there was no reason to bet that turn, if you let a draw get there sometimes, it's not the end of the world.

[dgostate8 0]

Who has that avatar with Gene Wilder and it says "You lose! Good day, sir!" That's the first thing I thought of when I read the post.

[Mercury69 3]

YuckI think I'm shutting down on his c/r. The only other option is to shove on the flop to get him off a backdoor flush draw, but it appears he's already hit his flush...Edit: Also thinking he might have hit a set and wants YOU of a flush draw. If he's a lagtard, he might only have TPTK and needs you off the draws. If that's the case, I'd be inclined to credit him with the Ac, regardless of his style.

[mtdesmoines 3]

What do we think?

Don't make a habit of this.

[shinzilla 0]

Don't make a habit of this.

Why not? It's a perfectly legitimate question; I wanted to know what people thought of how I played the hand. The whole point of posting a hand is to get responses from other people.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Why not? It's a perfectly legitimate question; I wanted to know what people thought of how I played the hand. The whole point of posting a hand is to get responses from other people.

I didn't mean posting a hand. I meant ... this: /Flop: ($5.75) 4, T, 6 (2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $4, CO raises to $8, Hero calls $4.Turn: ($21.75) 8 (2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $15, CO raises to $39.65 (All-In), Hero calls $24.65.\Hitting your set MAY have saved you from getting stacked by overs, but what are you beating other than overs even then?

[shinzilla 0]

I didn't mean posting a hand. I meant ... this: /Flop: ($5.75) 4, T, 6 (2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $4, CO raises to $8, Hero calls $4.Turn: ($21.75) 8 (2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $15, CO raises to $39.65 (All-In), Hero calls $24.65.\Hitting your set MAY have saved you from getting stacked by overs, but what are you beating other than overs even then?

Oh ok. My bad. You know, I think people are right when they say checking behind the turn and evaluating the river would be the best line in the long run. But here was my reasoning behind what I did. I was pretty confident he wouldn't play a set like this, because he'd want to protect it against the flush draw; the same goes with two pair. A made flush? Maybe. The double check raise was so suspicious. When he min check raised, I immediately suspected that he either already had the flush or was drawing to it. I didn't want to reraise the flop because obviously he's only calling with a hand that's at worst 50/50 against me. Villain checking the turn made me wonder. Why would he give up the lead when he had taken it on the flop? To trap me with the made flush? Perhaps, but I thought more likely holdings were a pair and a flush draw, or just the bare flush draw. When he check raised again... I probably just should have dumped it. Against a smart player, I would've definitely folded it without a thought, but villain's stats made me wonder. Fwiw, I knew I was sunk when the Jc hit the river. He showed 8d9c and took the pot.

[whiterice714 0]

so he check min raised your azz TWICE w/ a *gut shot* & a 9 high club draw... *then did it again when he made 2nd pair*what a fuccing donkey, hope you posted that in his player notes section...playing w/ this person in the long run seems as if it'll be very profitable... he played it like he had the 8c9c (can see that hand 100% of the time over his 8d 9c holdings... flopped a weak flush w/ SFD... idk wtf to think after hearing what he had)*EDIT* FMPsorry hahahaim an idiot sometimes

[Snamuh 0]

so he check min raised your azz TWICE w/ a back door straight draw & a 9 high club draw... er, sorry, he hit 2nd pair & eliminated his BDSD on the turn...

It was gutshot with a flush draw, not a backdoor, which is still really marginal.