Most Underrateed Player

[Cappy37 0]

Define "entertaining"

3 a.m.? Somewhere above infomercials with the dude wearing all the question marks and somewhere below a 30 min prepaid Girls Gone Wild infomercial. I never said it was award-show worthy.

[Merby 3]

For the "underrated"category:Scott ClementsBrad BoothAlso, don't forget:Brian Townsand (and a lot of other internet pros... )

[Eleusis 2]

In my humble opinion, the underrated player is Townsend.He's just made such a killing, in such a short time, over so many hands...His recent continued forays into the highest stakes live poker (according to his blog, he had a +2mil day recently) are highly profitable, and he even admits that he thinks he's still a slight dog at the highest limits of Omaha (which lends credibility for some reason).Then again, maybe "underrated" isn't quite the right word... pretty much everybody who knows what he's accomplished, rates him at the upper echelon, right?So maybe the word is most "unknown yet" or something stupid like that.p.s. Doyle rules

[thebottomline 0]

Sure, it had practically nothing to do with poker, but pre-PAD there was nothing more entertaining to watch on TV at that hour.

...so you HAVE to spend every hour in front of the TV? What I tend to do is, if theres nothing entertaining on, I don't watch TV. It's actually not a bad idea.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

Underrated: Eric Seidel Overrated: Jennifer Tilly

[rog 0]

QFT! How the hell did no one mention Phil Gordon until now?!?!?!Those that can't do, teach.

To be overrated, people would have to think he's good. I don't think he's overrated at all. He sucks, and everyone knows it.

[flyingdonkey 0]

To be overrated, people would have to think he's good. I don't think he's overrated at all. He sucks, and everyone knows it.

Apparently he also smells really bad...

[Exodustjs11 0]

underrated: jamie gold(hes really not that bad at poker)overrated: scott fischman(hes not around anymore but when he was around everyone worshiped him and the crew)

[Cappy37 0]

...so you HAVE to spend every hour in front of the TV? What I tend to do is, if theres nothing entertaining on, I don't watch TV. It's actually not a bad idea.

I watch a surprising amount of BBC.. Who's Line is it Anyway?, Coupling, Benny Hill, and Are You Being Served? are all quite good. Tv is next to online poker computer, btw.

[cletusvandam 0]

underrated: jamie gold(hes really not that bad at poker)overrated: scott fischman(hes not around anymore but when he was around everyone worshiped him and the crew)

fischman finished 2 away from the final table at the WPT championship for 250K and cashed in event 13 this year

[seemorenuts 0]

It should be self evident that it's highly probable that the most underrated player is someone we've never heard of.Of course, I was a candidate for that until this post, but some of you now believe that I have skill, so that disqualifies me.I feel that a tourney record without factoring for dollar magnitudes would settle the answer.As I've stated before, I was a huge outlier in some discredited free pub poker league where they had to cheat to hide my accomplishments and cheat to elevate the appearance of others. I did so well that people think I cheated, which I didn't, so I feel as if I'm in the same club as Men the Master, provided he's never cheated.Any of you so called "Nobodies" have an unusually great tournament record you'd like to share with us?I'd venture to say that I have a few things to teach that DN could learn from, mind you, he knows a heck of a lot, probably much more than I do, and it's no contest outside of NLHE, where I know next to nothing.I don't say this to brag, but to elicit the question of the forum members, do you think you have anything to teach a giant the caliber of DN?Please share.

[Merby 3]

It should be self evident that it's highly probable that the most underrated player is someone we've never heard of.Of course, I was a candidate for that until this post ...

*crickets chirping*

[seemorenuts 0]

*crickets chirping*

Leaves rustling.Some mice stirring.A beaver licks his balls.A phoenix rises...Here's a serious question or two:We all can assume that on any given day DN is truly the best player on the planet.We've all seen him able to consistently read other players' hands; too often to be a fluke.It's hard to put a measurement on how great players are relative to others if you haven't played against them.What is the probability that you could actually say something (re paradigms) that DN could learn from?How many forum members could offer anything new to DN?How much of poker just doesn't get into the literature though it's obvious to top players, they find it hard to explain, and they even risk being ridiculed if they try? I'm thinking of the concept of how to read hands, I know DN and Harrington swear that it's betting patterns and none of this hocus-pocus psychological touchy-feely stuff, but I have a set of theories explaining why and how you can actually read people's cards that I suspect DN and a few others know and practice but don't bother to explain.Crickets chirping.Doubters stepping on crickets, crushing sound...

[StupidKid 0]

Leaves rustling.Some mice stirring.A beaver licks his balls.A phoenix rises...Here's a serious question or two:We all can assume that on any given day DN is truly the best player on the planet.We've all seen him able to consistently read other players' hands; too often to be a fluke.It's hard to put a measurement on how great players are relative to others if you haven't played against them.What is the probability that you could actually say something (re paradigms) that DN could learn from?How many forum members could offer anything new to DN?How much of poker just doesn't get into the literature though it's obvious to top players, they find it hard to explain, and they even risk being ridiculed if they try? I'm thinking of the concept of how to read hands, I know DN and Harrington swear that it's betting patterns and none of this hocus-pocus psychological touchy-feely stuff, but I have a set of theories explaining why and how you can actually read people's cards that I suspect DN and a few others know and practice but don't bother to explain.Crickets chirping.Doubters stepping on crickets, crushing sound...

I know exactly what you're talking about

[seemorenuts 0]

this really depends if you are asking poker players or a random person off the street.a random person off the street will grossly overate chrismoneymaker

Overeat not overate. Raymer would overeat Moneymaker. I heard he eats the flop. Brad Garrett said so.

[seemorenuts 0]

I know exactly what you're talking about

See? You had a chance to learn something, you had a chance to get DN to come out of hibernation--to share with you one of poker's secrets--what did you do? You blew it for a cheap laugh.

[StupidKid 0]

See? You had a chance to learn something, you had a chance to get DN to come out of hibernation--to share with you one of poker's secrets--what did you do? You blew it for a cheap laugh.

Worth it.On a sidenote it was not a cheap laugh. These x-ray specs cost me $4.99. But the looks I get from chicks when I wear them at the table make it totally worth it, not to mention the fact that I CAN SEE EVERYONES CARDS!!!

[seemorenuts 0]

Worth it.On a sidenote it was not a cheap laugh. These x-ray specs cost me $4.99. But the looks I get from chicks when I wear them at the table make it totally worth it, not to mention the fact that I CAN SEE EVERYONES CARDS!!!

The phenomenon is called peacocking. I have had my mohawk haircut (my way to root for DN's first bracelet for 2007) a week now but all I got was some toothless African guy waving hello to me so far.Under $5, it was a cheap laugh, and DN will never lower himself to comment on this noisy thread. Thanks, buddy.Oh, and put on some underpants, will you? Ah, don't bother.

[Jam-Fly 8]

Another name that should be thrown into the mix is Bill Edler. Very under rated imo

[Snamuh 0]

Another name that should be thrown into the mix is Bill Edler. Very under rated imo

I agree with this. There are a lot of great players that haven't received much TV time, therefore they are fairly unknown to the general public (people that don't follow up with the tournament scene on a daily/hourly basis) and can be consider underrated.

[David_Nicoson 1]

brunson was a great player in the past, but he is not a big time NL holdem tournament player any more. he is too old and does not have the stamina to outlast a huge field. i would put up the deed of my house and give anyone they wanted 5-1 odds that he will not win another WSOP bracelet in his lifetime. that doesn't mean he wasnt a great player in the past, or that he isn't a competent pro now.EDIT:if anyone wants to make this bet for WSOP 2008, I am willing to lay 50-1 that Brunson will not win a bracelet. but it is only worth my while if someone wants to bet $20 or more. i will take the free money. shippppppppppppp

It was way back in aught 5 when Doyle last won a bracelet. Cash games don't mean anything, either.

[Jam-Fly 8]

It was way back in aught 5 when Doyle last won a bracelet. Cash games don't mean anything, either.

WTF? Are you crazy? Cash games define a good player. Tournaments are alot higher variance due to increasing blinds, but cash games don't raise the blinds. Therefore the skill level increases. And Doyle is a great cash game player, constantly doing well in the big game, so this alone would establish him as a top player. If you beat the Big game and have 0 tournament success, you should still be considered an extremely good player. Cash games mean just as much, if not more than tournaments, and saying they don't mean anything is retarded.

[Merby 3]

WTF? Are you crazy? Cash games define a good player. Tournaments are alot higher variance due to increasing blinds, but cash games don't raise the blinds. Therefore the skill level increases. And Doyle is a great cash game player, constantly doing well in the big game, so this alone would establish him as a top player. If you beat the Big game and have 0 tournament success, you should still be considered an extremely good player. Cash games mean just as much, if not more than tournaments, and saying they don't mean anything is retarded.

I think you missed his (sw)...

[Jam-Fly 8]

I think you missed his (sw)...

haha, I pulled the double (sw)unless your doing a triple?

[David_Nicoson 1]

How about Clonie Gowen for overrated? Not that she's generally considered great; it's just that she's not widely regarded as an idiot.