Busting 7th With 88, Question.

[highsociety 0]

Played the Stars $20 180 SNG for the first time in months and ended up Final Tabling, came in 6th in chips at around $24K. Wewere down to 7 handed, I had made 2 open-raises from the CO w/o showing. The button had twice as many chips as me around $42K, the blinds both were short with around $6K and $8K respectively. We got down to 7 handed, blinds $1K-$2k w/100 ante I believe. I had $19,500K and it folds to me in SB with 88. BB has around $31K now. I decide to make it $8K to go, he thinks for a few seconds & puts me in, first time he has done that at all. I start to think, $22.5K in the pot $11.5K to call puts me just under 2 to 1 on my money. It's tough to fold since I put about 45% of my stack in preflop which I knew when I picked $8K to raise, so that if he did put me in I would have sufficient odds to call and after thinking of his range, I thought it was more likely I was up agaist a hand like AJ, AQ, or any 2 over cards like that. I call he turns over QQ and flops a set and I go out in 7th. Just wondering if there is anyway that I can avoid going broke in this hand at these levels, without obviously just mucking in the SB with 88?!!?! I figure if I limp and he raises from the BB I will most likely shove in that spot too, if I min raise and he raises me then I most likey put it in. The thing was there had only been about 25 hands played at the Final Table at that point and I hadn't been able to see any of his hands, all I knew was he was playing Tight, especially for his stack size in comparison to the rest of the players.

[sixhands 0]

It's stars dude, you should have just completed and both remaining 8s would have hit the flop.You would have doubled up with quads.I don't mind the way you played it, you just happened to run into a better hand. It happens :DMe though, I would have limped and folded to a raise.

[rogerwilco 0]

Just wondering if there is anyway that I can avoid going broke in this hand at these levels, without obviously just mucking in the SB with 88?!!?!

No, in fact that is an easy push from the SB, you should never even have had a decision in this hand. **** happens.

[BeaverStyle 1]

Push preflop.... Sucks he woke up w/ a big hand, but hey, "THAT'S POKER!1!!"Seriously though, push preflop. Winning the blinds and antes is much better than getting called and seeing a flop of A K 7 oop.

[mtdesmoines 3]

No, in fact that is an easy push from the SB, you should never even have had a decision in this hand. **** happens.

I think this is one of those things. depending on my read of the BB, I might have pushed AIPF instead of puttng half my stack in might be the only difference.

[StupidKid 0]

Shove preflop, raising to just under half your stack and then folding with only 10bbs is bad. If he flat calls what are you doing on a KJ4 flop? A93? This is an easy unavoidable shovel blind vs blind.

[rogerwilco 0]

I think this is one of those things. depending on my read of the BB, I might have pushed AIPF instead of puttng half my stack in might be the only difference.

I don't think a read you have or don't have on BB matters at all here. Whether you think he'll call with any two cards or only with AA or anything in between you gotta push here. 88 is a solid favourite against a random hand and the blinds&antes are quite meaningful to OP's stack.ETA: also, you have to play to win at the final table of a 180, the money is at the top. Taking risks and maybe busting in 7th is way +ev compared to letting yourself get blinded off and busting in 5th.

[fckthis 0]

Meh 8k preflop isnt great. 4x the bb at this level = too much of ure stack.Raise something like 2.5bb, does the same job and allows you to release. In your case, I might've waited, because you could move up the payscale easily due to the shortstackers. BUT, I don't remember the exact pay structure, and I believe it is top heavy, so you will have to take risks sooner or later.

[potatoman 0]

Meh 8k preflop isnt great. 4x the bb at this level = too much of ure stack.Raise something like 2.5bb, does the same job and allows you to release. In your case, I might've waited, because you could move up the payscale easily due to the shortstackers. BUT, I don't remember the exact pay structure, and I believe it is top heavy, so you will have to take risks sooner or later.

You either do this or shove. Both are agreeable moves to me and just depend on your style of play. With the shove you'll either win the blinds, which are somewhat important at this stage, get called by a couple hands you're ahead of, or get called by a bunch of hands your crushed by. Most of the time it will be a fold. When it's a call, you're probably toast or in a coin flip situation (maybe AK or AQ). You do not love seeing a flop with 88 at this stage in a tournament, although, you're not completely dead in the water if you do. You don't have to hit the flop to take it away, although you have to be cautious.When you're feeling low on chips and you're about to raise about half your stack with a middle of the road raising hand in the SB (AK-22) ask yourself what you're going to do if the BB puts you allin. You should know the answer to this before you put any chips in the middle. If the answer is call, just put those chips in now, and give your opponent a harder decision.A raise of 2.5-3 BB is fine too. I'll usually do this with 10BB or more, and shove with less than 10 BB.

[whiterice714 0]

thaaaaaaaaats poker...what can ya do? you complete he raises you push anyways... you make 3x bb raise he's gonna reraise you & you're likely going to push anyways... i dont like betting 8k though, either all of it / virtually none of it (either complete or push IMO) the BB isn't going to wake up w/ zigfried & roy every time ;]

[cubbybri 0]

I personally like the 2.5*BB to take the blinds with the almost dead stacks leaving very soon. You may still have to get it in but it leaves you some room. Outside that or if 2.5BB raises are not getting folds(they usually do frequently by FT), I would push if raising anything more.

[highsociety 0]

Thanks for the help guys, appreciate the input

[The Nuts 0]

Ultra-easy shove. You got an M of around 6 (not an effective M) and you have a middle pair. A shove is the best choice by far.

[timwakefield 68]

I don't want to be rude, but I think there are some very bad opinions presented in this thread, i.e. anybody not saying shove shove shove.Blinds 1k/2k + ante, you have 20k so your M is about 5. 88 is well ahead of a random hand, and you may also get called by plenty of hands that you beat (77, 66, A8, etc). IMO the only time that you would ever not shove this is if you opponent in the BB is a very crazy super laggy player, and you had a strong read that a 'standard' raise to 2.5x or 3x would induce an all-in-bluff from him, which you would insta-call. Or perhaps you have a read that he will push all in with pretty much random cards if you look weak and just complete - again you insta-call. Intelligent opponents will read a 2.5x raise as stronger than a push here, if they think that you're a decent player...and you want them to read you as weak. Push all in 98%+ of the time here.