Sysvr4

Hehe, ok then. One last ditch effort tho... For all you non-cappers, please explain to me why it was ok for Actuary to raise the flop first time? Why is that raise for value and a cap isn't when our equity hasn't changed substantially between the two raises and we had no way of knowing villain would retake the lead with a 3-bet. Also, why is that sentence so long?And I hate to sound like a chronic complainer... but I absolutely hate this new board. Reasons:1) It's hard to read. The new quoting sucks, etc.2) In their quest to emulate 2+2 the mods have seen fit to chop up the forums so muc

1) But you realize that getting anywhere close to 20% on the better flush draw requires you to include improbable hands like Q4s right? Much more likely that number is around 10%, making the cap +EV.2) Everyone calls the cap. 3) The "giving our hand away" argument assumes that our opponents can reason that we're raising the flop with a flush draw for equity. If they can all reliably do that, Actuary really needs to work on his game selection.4) Describe for me the line that gains more / loses less than capping the flop, bet/calling the turn (we'd call two off anyway) and either bet/raising

I see no compelling reason that it's less than 30-33% we normally have with the fd.What do you see in this hand that has you fearing a set and its redraws or an overflush? I see very little evidence to support a theory that we're likely enough to be behind to a set to not cap this flop for value. JeffEdit: But honestly I'm too busy shamelessly reading the dirt on ZJ to bother arguing this hand too much

Raise PF. Bet/call the flop. Bet/raise the turn.Jeff

Look at the board again and assign a value (in outs) to the following:1) Your overcards (hint, one of them is basically worthless and the other isn't much better)2) Your gutshot (even this is diminished slightly by the two clubs)3) Your bd flush draw.I'm not saying do not continue in the hand, but betting is just begging to be raised, and it's very unlikely that flop didn't hit someone.The only valid reason I see to bet this is to try to buy a free turn. But I'd say about 5% of the flops I see like this don't have a raise after the PFR bets.Jeff

Textbook check here. You may want to reread the overcard section in SSHE.Jeff

Man I'm not sure why, but I kinda like it. And I normally slow down to turn raises, but with all the donkeys who have been raising the turn on me lately, I think this is probably ok.Of course, the river may have saved you from certain death by two pair :)Jeff

Haven't read replies.I very much like the idea of going for the river c/r given that the bettor is on your right and you *might* get to trap for two more bets. Plus I think he bets this about 95% of the time.JeffPS - I cap the flop. I don't believe for a minute that screech wrote any of that weak garbage above. Ok, these have some merit but we're still 4-way on the turn. A bet here is damn near for value! Who says we have to check?Only reason I see not to cap that flop is #5 here, and I don't think it's worth the trade, frankly. Cap the flop. :)Jeff

I cap the turn and lead/call the river.Jeff I presume you meant river instead of turn.Actually, I like your line better unless villain is the type who would 3-bet this turn and take a free showdown if another club doesn't fall (ie, tricky).Jeff

Haven't read replies.I say fold to the flop 3-bet or raise the turn for fold equity / free showdown.Jeff

Right on. Frequently when I see something like this villain is trying to induce a bet on the river so he can raise. Check/call for info.Jeff

Lot of good replies here. I'm still not sure of the best line.I agree with MNG... if we're going to call down just for the sake of a showdown, I should check/behind on the flop and call one off on the turn and river. Or perhaps check the flop and raise/fold the turn for a free showdown / fold equity. Any takers on that line?3-betting the flop to get a free turn isn't a bad idea, in Alpha's line of thinking. Or I could bet the turn and check behind on the river.Dunno. Too hard. I give up.Jeff

So I'm clear on what you're saying... what line are you advocating specifically?Jeff

Other than the PF RR, I like it.Jeff

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is BB with [Ts], [Tc]. 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, SB caps, Hero calls.Flop: (9 SB) [6d], [Kh], [7c] (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero folds.Final Pot: 6 BBVillain: 67/12/1.3Whatcha think?Jeff

Ewww, really? Where do you play 6-max exactly? I like bet/fold, too. I think that's the proper line for this hand... (but not the one I took)Jeff Oh yeah? PM me your stars name when you get a second and I'll lookup my stats on you...So far so good on the 2/4 tables. I have 50-100BB swings day to day, but I'm running well so far.Jeff

I disagree. I think c/r-ing this flop is the way too go. If I lead and he has me crushed, he's raising and I'm HU and OOP against him and there's less dead money in the pot.If I c/r, he's the most likely better so I end up trapping him and Button for a bet giving me odds to call a 3-bet.If I have him crushed, he'll probably just fold. I can't see any angle from which leading is better, except when it gets checked around as it did here. But as you said, the flop is somewhat coordinated... this flop gets bet 80-90% of the time I'd say. So you check/call the turn? That's my real question in

I would think it'd be the other way around.Why would you NOT want to raise a hand like this for value against blinds that defend too liberally?Jeff

Nh. This is the perfect spot for you on the river... you're putting in the 2nd bet and he puts in the 3rd. Since you can now call for 3 bets total I think that's exactly the right way to play it.If your positions are reversed, it's a little harder because if you 3-bet it you only get capped when you're beat.Jeff

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is UTG with K:club:, J:diamond:. Hero raises.Flop: (5.50 SB) A:diamond:, K:diamond:, 4:heart: (2 players)Hero bets, Button calls.Turn: (3.75 BB) 5:club: (2 players)Hero bets, Button calls.River: (5.75 BB) 4:diamond: (2 players)Hero ???Villain has played 100% of his first 13 hands at the table. I'm 4-tabling high speed tables and can't tell you more than that tho.What's your river line?Jeff

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is BB with A:heart:, J:club:. UTG raises, Hero calls.Flop: (6.50 SB) T:diamond:, 8:spade:, J:heart: (3 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks.Turn: (3.25 BB) Q:spade: (3 players)Hero checks... ?Villain: 48/7.5/2.25 after 50 handsFlop: I was going for a check/raise. How could he not bet that flop??Turn: If I missed the c/r I planned to bet the turn. This turn scared me tho because I did not know how to react to a raise and I figured I could check/call it.What's your line?Jeff

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is Button with Q:club:, 9:club:. UTG calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.Flop: (6.50 SB) T:spade:, A:spade:, Q:diamond: (3 players)BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.Turn: (4.25 BB) 3:diamond: (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.River: (6.25 BB) T:diamond: (2 players)UTG checks, Hero ???.Villain: 35/4/0.15 after only 28 hands.What's my move and why?Jeff

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is Button with A:diamond:, K:spade:. 2 folds, BB calls.Flop: (8.50 SB) 9:spade:, 2:spade:, 4:spade: (2 players)BB bets, BB calls.Turn: (6.25 BB) Q:diamond: (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.River: (8.25 BB) 3:diamond: (2 players)BB checks, Hero checks.Final Pot: 8.25 BBVillain is the only one at the table who has any idea what he's doing. Naturally I pick him to mix it up. FWIW, I figured he put me on a steal, so I put him on a resteal with a marginal hand and played it accordingly.Villain Stats: 29/14/1

I raise and bet/fold almost any turn that doesn't improve my hand.Jeff

That is a text-book terrible flop for AA. If it were HU, I would say definitely do not cap the flop, but with BB in there it may have some value, but it's probably close.Like most others said tho, I'm certainly not raising the turn if you cap the flop and he leads. Call down until BB wakes up on a scary card (of which there are many).Jeff