debating quitting poker

[knght311 0]

For the past 4 months I have been on a horrible losing streak...and it gets even worse to the point that on probably 80% of the hands that I lose with I get all my money in while my opponents are still on draws...I once was a winning poker player and had built my bankroll up to about 4500 playing 1-2NL. I have changed locations and now play in casino's...my previous games were in underground poker rooms. I have recorded one win since I have been here and it is really killing my confidence...since I have been here I have lost roughly 3000KI understand odds, I understand playing weak opponents...or players that don't usually make the correct play...but it seems that I am always on the blunt end of it... me usually being a strong 3-1 favoriteI was wondering if anyone has experienced an ongoing variance like this and what measures they took to reevaluate and move back up??

[NickTheKid 0]

It's obviously a leak in your game, I doubt losing $3000 playing 1-2 NL really was the spawn of constant suckouts. Without hand histories to analyze you will have too figure out the problem and deal with it, that is the best advice I can give.

[bourbenz 0]

take whats left of your bankroll and put it on a roulette number, if you win quit poker if you lose quit poker.

[chindi 0]

I was wondering if anyone has experienced an ongoing variance like this and what measures they took to reevaluate and move back up??

First the standards: 1) Play limits that are in accord with your bankroll so that variance won't kill you.2) Accept that variance happens.3) Keep playing good poker, don't become a draw-chaser just because they did it to you.When all that seems to fail and you're deep in the downside of variance? Take a few weeks off.I had a 2 week span where I lost about 700 or so in a mix of NL, PL and SnGs. There wasn't a draw that didn't hit and it was never on anything but a crippling hand. Had boats on the flop get crushed by riverred Quads to 'rescue' losing sessions out of winning ones, and generally just couldn't win a hand to save my life. So I took a few weeks off, waited until I felt the urge to play again and where I could think about the game without that sour taste in my mouth and got back into it.What I've noticed from that one brutal span, and from watching a friend of mine burn through about 4.5K in a 4 week span is that 'Tilt' can be a lot harder to recognize than you'd think. Sometimes after multiple losing sessions in a row it just sneaks in there.... your starting hands get a bit looser and you become just a bit more stubborn... and it ends up increasing your variance even more. So take a break, then start playing 2/4 NL or 5/10 Limit and go to it.

[knght311 0]

take whats left of your bankroll and put it on a roulette number, if you win quit poker if you lose quit poker.

Lol...

[knght311 0]

I was wondering if anyone has experienced an ongoing variance like this and what measures they took to reevaluate and move back up??

First the standards: 1) Play limits that are in accord with your bankroll so that variance won't kill you.2) Accept that variance happens.3) Keep playing good poker, don't become a draw-chaser just because they did it to you.When all that seems to fail and you're deep in the downside of variance? Take a few weeks off.I had a 2 week span where I lost about 700 or so in a mix of NL, PL and SnGs. There wasn't a draw that didn't hit and it was never on anything but a crippling hand. Had boats on the flop get crushed by riverred Quads to 'rescue' losing sessions out of winning ones, and generally just couldn't win a hand to save my life. So I took a few weeks off, waited until I felt the urge to play again and where I could think about the game without that sour taste in my mouth and got back into it.What I've noticed from that one brutal span, and from watching a friend of mine burn through about 4.5K in a 4 week span is that 'Tilt' can be a lot harder to recognize than you'd think. Sometimes after multiple losing sessions in a row it just sneaks in there.... your starting hands get a bit looser and you become just a bit more stubborn... and it ends up increasing your variance even more. So take a break, then start playing 2/4 NL or 5/10 Limit and go to it.

thanks man...this does help, unfortunately last night was my second trip back to the casinos after having taken a month off...another 500 down the drain in those two trips...I probably will take some more time off as I just can't fathom blowing through my roll like this anymore but I do appreciate the words and will definetely watch out for what you said.

[chuckf410 0]

If you still enjoy the game over all, stop for a month. Do some reading up on the game. If you spent 3 hours a day playing poker, use that time to study the game. Reconnect with what you enjoyed about playing. Go back to the game fresh. If you continue to lose then I would suggest quitting. Like the last person said, you've probably just got a hole in your game. And since you've moved to a new place, that's probably contributing to your issue.You also mentioned playing against weak players. Is that what you are doing now? If so, I'm guessing that you may be suffering from playing beneath you skill level. You're letting thier poor play rub off on you.

[elkang 0]

play lower limits online. make sure you can crush these "easier" games before going back up to 1/2. live and online are different games but still GO DOWN IN LIMITS.

[knght311 0]

It's obviously a leak in your game, I doubt losing $3000 playing 1-2 NL really was the spawn of constant suckouts. Without hand histories to analyze you will have too  figure out the problem and deal with it, that is the best advice I can give.

Nick...3000K down the drain actually was a majority of constant suckouts...I posted one of my hands on here last week but I will give some examples:Suckouts:1.me: 55 1st pos. no raise preflopflop 5 3rd pos : bet 15button: callme: all in 78 more to callbutton: call K-3 turn diamond...no pair on the board2. the KQ vs. 8-5 hearts hand I posted that you got into an argument about...3. J-k...I am all in with top pair $75 on the flop...flop is 4-8-j...guy with about 120 calls me with 9-10...catches runner runner 9-10 to win4. my AK all in preflop for 150 after a raise...the raiser calls with 8-10 flop comes KK9 runner Runner 7-Jand on and on...I obvioucly can't remember all of them but here are just some that stung!

[NickTheKid 0]

Yes, sorry, all of your NL beats are bad ones I forgot. Start admiting to some mistakes, stop playing in shady underground cardrooms, or keep losing money.

[knght311 0]

If you still enjoy the game over all, stop for a month. Do some reading up on the game. If you spent 3 hours a day playing poker, use that time to study the game. Reconnect with what you enjoyed about playing.  Go back to the game fresh. If you continue to lose then I would suggest quitting.  Like the last person said, you've probably just got a hole in your game. And since you've moved to a new place, that's probably contributing to your issue.You also mentioned playing against weak players. Is that what you are doing now? If so, I'm guessing that you may be suffering from playing beneath you skill level. You're letting thier poor play rub off on you.

it is kind of hard to avoid...I play at the local casinos in LA and at the limits that I play there are so many tourists that you can't really escape the poor players...I have tried every casino in the city with no luck...I considered that there poor play has been rubbing off on me about a month and a half ago...I am now playing tighter than ever and still getting the short end of the stick...thanks for the suggestions

[Franky Bones 0]

Hey Nick... do you ever do anything besides flame? I bet you are a real treat to be around in person. To the OP... Don't quit. Just take a long break. Have you taken an extended period off recently? Say more than 2 weeks?

[knght311 0]

Yes, sorry, all of your NL beats are bad ones I forgot. Start admiting to some mistakes, stop playing in shady underground cardrooms, or keep losing money.

I don't play in underground card rooms anymore..that was in atlanta...now I play in well lit casino's...no shade anywhere :wink: and yes...i know not all of my losses come from badbeats...I lose hands as well...but it just seems to me that whenever that crucial moment comes to get all of my money in...I get a drawing hand to call me and get beat

[knght311 0]

Hey Nick... do you ever do anything besides flame?  I bet you are a real treat to be around in person.To the OP...   Don't quit.  Just take a long break.  Have you taken an extended period off recently?  Say more than 2 weeks?

yeah...just got back from a 1 month hiatus...lost 500 in two days

[NickTheKid 0]

Hey Nick... do you ever do anything besides flame?  I bet you are a real treat to be around in person.To the OP...   Don't quit.  Just take a long break.  Have you taken an extended period off recently?  Say more than 2 weeks?

How was that a flame moron? I suggested the obvious which was that he had a leak in his game, and he replied saying how he's only losing because of bad beats and suckouts, so what do I say too that? I'm not going to argue with someone who won't admit they are wrong, so I just made my point real simple. Don't play beyond your limit which he is clearly doing.

[chindi 0]

thanks man...this does help, unfortunately last night was my second trip back to the casinos after having taken a month off...another 500 down the drain in those two trips...I probably will take some more time off as I just can't fathom blowing through my roll like this anymore but I do appreciate the words and will definetely watch out for what you said.

Also to backup what someone else said (two someone's actually): If poker is something you really want to do, then you should do two things during this 'break' from live poker. First, read up some. There are lots of good books out there, and while I generally think that there is no singular Poker Bible, and that no book is completely meritless, there are certainly some that are better than others. Secondly, play some poker online. Not because the competition is that much weaker (which it is, and that'll possibly help you deal with fish schooling), but also because if you play on a site that'll give you hand histories, it'll let you run some analysis on your play and see if you've got some glaring hole in your game that wasn't exposed in the underground games you were playing in. Thirdly, and this is just me, if you do go back to the casino and play the same limits where you're being crushed, I HIGHLY recommend tightening up your play... alot. It sounds like part of the problem you're having is that the game you're used to playing, just isn't working in the casinos. So either the competition was a lot easier in the underground, or better so they did less chasing and had a better handle on fold equity. Play at the big casinos is wildly variant, and there are always some yahoos with more money than sense who'll get just enough luck to break you. Lastly, $1000 left in your poker bankroll could buy a pretty cool Aquarium and you'd be able to relax and watch it and lower your blood pressure too.

[NickTheKid 0]

I'd like to point out, I never flame anybody. Me telling someone to keep bad beats to themselves is the farthest I go, and when someone talks a lot of bullcrap I again, like to step in. Bones, you have been around here for a week or so, I suggest not making assumptions about me so quick in the run. I only try to help people that want to be helped, not people that post crap for sympathy.

[Franky Bones 0]

Nick, yeah... maybe I misread you a little bit on THIS post. I am sorry. I tried to edit it.. but the speed around here it too fast.I still be you are a real treat to be around.

[Royal_Tour 0]

It's obviously a leak in your game, I doubt losing $3000 playing 1-2 NL really was the spawn of constant suckouts. Without hand histories to analyze you will have too  figure out the problem and deal with it, that is the best advice I can give.

Nick...3000K down the drain actually was a majority of constant suckouts...I posted one of my hands on here last week but I will give some examples:Suckouts:1.me: 55 1st pos. no raise preflopflop 5 3rd pos : bet 15button: callme: all in 78 more to callbutton: call K-3 turn diamond...no pair on the board2. the KQ vs. 8-5 hearts hand I posted that you got into an argument about...3. J-k...I am all in with top pair $75 on the flop...flop is 4-8-j...guy with about 120 calls me with 9-10...catches runner runner 9-10 to win4. my AK all in preflop for 150 after a raise...the raiser calls with 8-10 flop comes KK9 runner Runner 7-Jand on and on...I obvioucly can't remember all of them but here are just some that stung!

Ok.. 1st off.. These are not bad beats.These happen to everyone on a daily basis., heck. i'd say for every few hands i win.. i lose a big on like these.. But the key is.. dont risk your entire stack on hands that are open to all sorts of possibilities.stop pushing with top pair., stop going all in with the 4th nuts after the flop. those 4th nuts can easily be 10th nuts after the river..see what i'm saying.. You no doubt have won a ton because you are aggressive, and were winning big hands.. and now your aggressive style is backfiring because of some "not so bad beats"

[NickTheKid 0]

Thanks.

[knght311 0]

It's obviously a leak in your game, I doubt losing $3000 playing 1-2 NL really was the spawn of constant suckouts. Without hand histories to analyze you will have too  figure out the problem and deal with it, that is the best advice I can give.

Nick...3000K down the drain actually was a majority of constant suckouts...I posted one of my hands on here last week but I will give some examples:Suckouts:1.me: 55 1st pos. no raise preflopflop 5 3rd pos : bet 15button: callme: all in 78 more to callbutton: call K-3 turn diamond...no pair on the board2. the KQ vs. 8-5 hearts hand I posted that you got into an argument about...3. J-k...I am all in with top pair $75 on the flop...flop is 4-8-j...guy with about 120 calls me with 9-10...catches runner runner 9-10 to win4. my AK all in preflop for 150 after a raise...the raiser calls with 8-10 flop comes KK9 runner Runner 7-Jand on and on...I obvioucly can't remember all of them but here are just some that stung!

Ok.. 1st off.. These are not bad beats.These happen to everyone on a daily basis., heck. i'd say for every few hands i win.. i lose a big on like these.. But the key is.. dont risk your entire stack on hands that are open to all sorts of possibilities.stop pushing with top pair., stop going all in with the 4th nuts after the flop. those 4th nuts can easily be 10th nuts after the river..see what i'm saying.. You no doubt have won a ton because you are aggressive, and were winning big hands.. and now your aggressive style is backfiring because of some "not so bad beats"

Royal...I completely agree...these are not bad beats...and I never once said that they were...BUT...I am a favorite...and a strong favorite at that...it just seems like whenver I am in a showdown situation for all of my money ...their 20-33% window becomes limitless...

[knght311 0]

thanks man...this does help, unfortunately last night was my second trip back to the casinos after having taken a month off...another 500 down the drain in those two trips...I probably will take some more time off as I just can't fathom blowing through my roll like this anymore but I do appreciate the words and will definetely watch out for what you said.

Also to backup what someone else said (two someone's actually): If poker is something you really want to do, then you should do two things during this 'break' from live poker. First, read up some. There are lots of good books out there, and while I generally think that there is no singular Poker Bible, and that no book is completely meritless, there are certainly some that are better than others. Secondly, play some poker online. Not because the competition is that much weaker (which it is, and that'll possibly help you deal with fish schooling), but also because if you play on a site that'll give you hand histories, it'll let you run some analysis on your play and see if you've got some glaring hole in your game that wasn't exposed in the underground games you were playing in. Thirdly, and this is just me, if you do go back to the casino and play the same limits where you're being crushed, I HIGHLY recommend tightening up your play... alot. It sounds like part of the problem you're having is that the game you're used to playing, just isn't working in the casinos. So either the competition was a lot easier in the underground, or better so they did less chasing and had a better handle on fold equity. Play at the big casinos is wildly variant, and there are always some yahoos with more money than sense who'll get just enough luck to break you. Lastly, $1000 left in your poker bankroll could buy a pretty cool Aquarium and you'd be able to relax and watch it and lower your blood pressure too.

Thanks for all of the suggestions...I do take them to heart...as for the books...read them...online poker I do play...but not as much, I have a decent roll on party and prefer mostly the sitngo's...I usually keep track of my hands and reevaluate after I play...but this is something I need to do more, thanks for this suggestions...and yes, I hate playing at casino's.oh, and saltwater fishtanks and fish are completely cool

[Royal_Tour 0]

Royal...I completely agree...these are not bad beats...and I never once said that they were...BUT...I am a favorite...and a strong favorite at that...it just seems like whenver I am in a showdown situation for all of my money ...their 20-33% window becomes limitless...ok. glad you agree.. I'l try to explain some helpfull advice. i hope i dont sound too lame with this.. but here goes.Like the ice king in rudoplh the red nose reindeer once said. "put one foot in front of the other" LOL..what i mean is., you need to realise your goin to take a few steps forward, and a few steps back. You pick up a good hand. and you take a quick run. you get on a bad streak you take several steps back.The key to being a winning player, is making sure your taking more steps forward, than you are backwards. Regardless of wether your getting your money in wit hthe right hand or not, your trying to take LEAPS!. and when you lose, you take a leap back. make sure your spurts are forward, and your steps back, are only steps.hope that helps

[knght311 0]

Royal...I completely agree...these are not bad beats...and I never once said that they were...BUT...I am a favorite...and a strong favorite at that...it just seems like whenver I am in a showdown situation for all of my money ...their 20-33% window becomes limitless...ok. glad you agree..  I'l try to explain some helpfull advice. i hope i dont sound too lame with this.. but here goes.Like the ice king in rudoplh the red nose reindeer once said. "put one foot in front of the other" LOL..what i mean is., you need to realise your goin to take a few steps forward, and a few steps back.  You pick up a good hand. and you take a quick run. you get on a bad streak you take several steps back.The key to being a winning player, is making sure your taking more steps forward, than you are backwards. Regardless of wether your getting your money in wit hthe right hand or not, your trying to take LEAPS!. and when you lose, you take a leap back. make sure your spurts are forward,  and your steps back, are only steps.hope that helps

best advice yet

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

I THINK YOU SHOULD QUIT. YOU SUCK DUDE. STICK TO UNO OR SOMETHING