CoranMoran 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Just starting to convert from limit to no-limit cash games.So I'm a bit unfamiliar with these "big" relevant stacks.In limit, I would push push push here, knowing that even if I am up against a cooler, I can only lose so much.Should I be a lot more passive in this no-limit game?Or is my line below too weak?What should my plan be on different rivers?As always, poker is an easy game when you are familiar with your opponent's playing style.So let's assume no read here.Please advise.--CM==============================PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($149.80)BB ($208.50)UTG ($264.60)MP ($190)Hero (Button) ($240.55)Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K2 folds, Hero bets $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1Flop: ($5.50) A, K, 10(2 players)BB bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25Turn: ($16) 2(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB raises to $32, Hero calls $20......... Link to post Share on other sites
Mills 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Just starting to convert from limit to no-limit cash games.So I'm a bit unfamiliar with these "big" relevant stacks.In limit, I would push push push here, knowing that even if I am up against a cooler, I can only lose so much.Should I be a lot more passive in this no-limit game?Or is my line below too week?What should my plan be on different rivers?As always, poker is an easy game when you are familiar with your opponent's playing style.So let's assume no read here.Please advise.--CM==============================PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($149.80)BB ($208.50)UTG ($264.60)MP ($190)Hero (Button) ($240.55)Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K2 folds, Hero bets $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1Flop: ($5.50) A, K, 10(2 players)BB bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25Turn: ($16) 2(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB raises to $32, Hero calls $20.........I think the flop should be a raise, you're ahead of a lot of his value range. (AJ, AQ, two pair hands, maybe a fewer weaker aces as well)failing that, this turm looks like a really safe card to try to get it in. two pair hands can stack off+ protection the 3bet gives you protection against combo draws...I really dont see him donking a set or straight on this board like this otf, as it smacks your raising range and he will get more in the midde with a c/r most likely. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 given how draw heavy and the fact he isnt folding a lot of combo draws here i raise that flop for value and be expecting the stacks to go in a lot. calling just lets his draws get there cheaply. also maybe nit picky i would make it every so slightly bigger preflop, 2.5x imo. i dont dislike a min, but if you dont have reads i wouldnt. but with reads i actually love the min tbhim getting it in on the turn.also i dont think otf a person would lead that size strong too often. i think the sizing is way more indicative of a draw or pair combo. i mean if you flopped a st8 here would you be potting it? maybe,... but unless you have metagame here or reads im going to assume big donk bet is weakish value and or a draw bc thats something i notice a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
wildspoke 2 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Just starting to convert from limit to no-limit cash games.So I'm a bit unfamiliar with these "big" relevant stacks.In limit, I would push push push here, knowing that even if I am up against a cooler, I can only lose so much.Should I be a lot more passive in this no-limit game?Or is my line below too week?What should my plan be on different rivers?As always, poker is an easy game when you are familiar with your opponent's playing style.So let's assume no read here.Please advise.--CM==============================PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($149.80)BB ($208.50)UTG ($264.60)MP ($190)Hero (Button) ($240.55)Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K2 folds, Hero bets $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1Flop: ($5.50) A, K, 10(2 players)BB bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25Turn: ($16) 2(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB raises to $32, Hero calls $20.........Tough spot. I think we have to take into account that the villain has shown strength in two different spots. First leading on the flop then the check raise on the turn. Plus, the board is exceptionally wet. Since we have 'no read' I think we could be in jail.Villain called on flop so QJ a real possibility as well as AA, KK (not as likely considering we have AK)Also he could be on a flush draw with the queen of diamonds. Depending on the river, I'm either just calling or I find a fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Mills 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Tough spot. I think we have to take into account that the villain has shown strength in two different spots. First leading on the flop then the check raise on the turn. Plus, the board is exceptionally wet. Since we have 'no read' I think we could be in jail.Villain called on flop so QJ a real possibility as well as AA, KK (not as likely considering we have AK)Also he could be on a flush draw with the queen of diamonds. Depending on the river, I'm either just calling or I find a fold.You really think he donks pot with the nuts? Unless hes scared of his own shadow trying to protect against a flush draw, I really dont see it. Link to post Share on other sites
wildspoke 2 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 You really think he donks pot with the nuts? Unless hes scared of his own shadow trying to protect against a flush draw, I really dont see it.I'm trying to think what hands he calls out of position. I would def put QJ in his range. Since we don't have a read the villain could put the hero on an ace Ax and is raising to get max value or he might not even be thinking what the hero has. You're putting him on the low end of the range AQ-AJ or a worse Ax. Really? K-10 or A 10 makes more sense then Ax. Hasn't he shown strength twice? Instead of trying to price out the flush draw could he just be trying to get max value from he thinks is the best hand. I don't know. Curious to hear what you think. Link to post Share on other sites
Nashtak 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 His line is too unorthodox for someone with the nuts for me to fold here. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 To people saying 'just get it in' are we aware it's 200bb stacks? Link to post Share on other sites
Mills 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I'm trying to think what hands he calls out of position. I would def put QJ in his range. Since we don't have a read the villain could put the hero on an ace Ax and is raising to get max value or he might not even be thinking what the hero has. You're putting him on the low end of the range AQ-AJ or a worse Ax. Really? K-10 or A 10 makes more sense then Ax. Hasn't he shown strength twice? Instead of trying to price out the flush draw could he just be trying to get max value from he thinks is the best hand. I don't know. Curious to hear what you think.I put A-10 and K-10 in his range, I labled them "two pair hands" So a realistic range that we beat here is: [K-10 A-10 AQ AJ] along with combo draws and naked Flush draws.The donk makes no sense with the nuts unless hes just way too clever for his own good. The only hands we would ever even consider raising is sets and top 2, anything else hes just getting flatted or we fold. (and I dont hate flatting the flop here at all the more I think about it) So he just value cuts himself most of the time he donks with the nuts here, which I think is pretty much never anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Mills 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 To people saying 'just get it in' are we aware it's 200bb stacks?Yea, this is why I might pot control the flop on reflection, but when the turn comes a total blank, are we really not 3 betting this spot? Link to post Share on other sites
Mills 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Maybe this is incorrect, but im not really worried about JQ at all, which leaves us with sets... two of which we have blockers to, and everything else in his value range we beat... we also beat big combo draws... maybe im a spew, who knows? Just my impression. Link to post Share on other sites
CoranMoran 0 Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 So by the river, there is $80 in the pot.And Villain has ~$170 behind.If a brick hits and Villain bets, do we call or raise?If we end up getting it all in on the river, am I really ahead of much at showdown?--cm Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 vs an unknown just call the river. no value in a riase until you know villain is a drooler who thinks any 2pair is the nutsI'm fine getting 200bbs in on the flop with top-two but I am fine with the play of the hero up to this point as wellIf you are checked to on the river, make a big value-bet, $65 or so. Puke if raised and look around to make sure no one is looking and fold. Then make a note that villain donks, c/r, c/r the nuts. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 also, if you are newer to NL or have played more LHE recently or whatev, I wouldn't play at these deep tables unless you know one of the villains to be a huge clown and you have a good seat on them. Based on the stack sizes it looks like a deep table. Link to post Share on other sites
wildspoke 2 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 vs an unknown just call the river. no value in a riase until you know villain is a drooler who thinks any 2pair is the nutsI call as well. can't raise. If villain shoves I think I have to call Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 To people saying 'just get it in' are we aware it's 200bb stacks?yah. im saying the texture of the board is so great that a lot of hands stack off here. and we have decent equity against st8s and or set of 10's. not great, but thats worst case scenario and villains stack off range should be way wider. drier board this would be an issue Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Just starting to convert from limit to no-limit cash games.So I'm a bit unfamiliar with these "big" relevant stacks.In limit, I would push push push here, knowing that even if I am up against a cooler, I can only lose so much.Should I be a lot more passive in this no-limit game?Or is my line below too weak?What should my plan be on different rivers?As always, poker is an easy game when you are familiar with your opponent's playing style.So let's assume no read here.Please advise.--CM==============================PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($149.80)BB ($208.50)UTG ($264.60)MP ($190)Hero (Button) ($240.55)Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K2 folds, Hero bets $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1Flop: ($5.50) A, K, 10(2 players)BB bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25Turn: ($16) 2(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB raises to $32, Hero calls $20.........Well, I think we see a combo draw here a lot more than a set. It's a weird hand tho. He might hold AT too you know. We've got all that money behind ... how do we only have a $15 pot on the flop with top two being AK ? Link to post Share on other sites
CoranMoran 0 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($149.80)BB ($208.50)UTG ($264.60)MP ($190)Hero (Button) ($240.55)Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K2 folds, Hero bets $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1Flop: ($5.50) A, K, 10(2 players)BB bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25Turn: ($16) 2(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $12, BB raises to $32, Hero calls $20River: ($80) A Villain checks-----------------------------------------------------How much can we hope him to call off?--cm Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Over bet shovelHe's prob not gonna fold QJ or AXor just bet $65 Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Suddenly an overbet into AT is pretty profitable. Link to post Share on other sites
Nashtak 0 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Suddenly an overbet into AT is pretty profitable.You think?The line villain has taken makes me believe he might be mediocre. And he has donkbet'd + c/raised us, so i know he ain't passive either. If he's got AT, the money is going in anyway. I wouldn't want to price out some sort of draw, taken he's as bad as i think he might be.This based on how i have a hard time giving a decent player a hand on the line he has taken. Link to post Share on other sites
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