Bots At Ftp

[ColeSLaw 0]

Doesn't anyone appreciate the beauty of this?Chucky K has set up a Smasharoo strat sweat shop for 1/2NL and has been making enough money to keep at least two middle American zombies in seats since November! I would pay to watch a documentary on this.

[DoinSublime 0]

FTP Doug chimed in finally:First off, I want to apologize for the delay in responding. I probably should have popped in right away yesterday to mention that we were well aware of the issue. That's pretty much what I'm doing now. This kind of issue isn't anywhere near my area of expertise, and for that reason, Sean from Support should be giving some more detail from his point of view before the end of day today.Obviously for security reasons, I can't say much about our bot policies and detection methods. I can, however, say that we treat these issues very seriously and review our policies often. In fact, we had a meeting today involving all of our top decision makers in response to this case to re-evaluate these procedures. I also want to thank Trebek for his vigilance, and to nation, Brandon, and nlnut for telling their stories as well. It's been a very interesting thread and debate.Doug Side note: Has anyone else read the entire thread? Just curious, the whole story is pretty darn interesting imo, whether or not they are bots.

[ColeSLaw 0]

Over two slow days at work, I'm on page 87.I think the story is much more interesting than bots. The guy set up a shop with 3 guys playing a scripted strategy and has been squeaking out 1.2bb without any adjustments.It's a virtual economy small-business more than the work of a poker pro and it's more similar to Chinese video game farming than bots. All in all, a real interesting discussion on detective work, stats, the gray area of bots versus trained monkeys.

[DoinSublime 0]

Over two slow days at work, I'm on page 87.I think the story is much more interesting than bots. The guy set up a shop with 3 guys playing a scripted strategy and has been squeaking out 1.2bb without any adjustments.It's a virtual economy small-business more than the work of a poker pro and it's more similar to Chinese video game farming than bots. All in all, a real interesting discussion on detective work, stats, the gray area of bots versus trained monkeys.

For sure, there is a lot of interesting aspects to the story. I don't know what to think, mainly because I can't break the numbers down all that well, as well as there is more to the story than the numbers obv. (I did send them off to some math friends to see what they can make of it, I guess from an objective standpoint.)I absolutely don't think they are telling the whole truth though. Something definitely is still f'n rotting in Team Smashabot.

[Randy Reed 0]

For sure, there is a lot of interesting aspects to the story. I don't know what to think, mainly because I can't break the numbers down all that well, as well as there is more to the story than the numbers obv. (I did send them off to some math friends to see what they can make of it, I guess from an objective standpoint.)I absolutely don't think they are telling the whole truth though. Something definitely is still f'n rotting in Team Smashabot.

Agreed. He just posted a pic of the room with 4 monitors side by side. It still doesn't account for the numbers though. They are just way to similar to be robotic.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

I've read the whole thread as of a few hours ago. It's basically (very strong) evidence vs. the words of a few guys. The thing about the guys is, if they're telling the truth, they've done a damn good job of not knowing what the truth really is. They've contradicted themselves and each other and been caught in a few small lies already. In the end, I don't think they're ever going to be able to provide proof that completely exonerates them.

[DCJ001 0]

I've read the whole thread as of a few hours ago. It's basically (very strong) evidence vs. the words of a few guys. The thing about the guys is, if they're telling the truth, they've done a damn good job of not knowing what the truth really is. They've contradicted themselves and each other and been caught in a few small lies already. In the end, I don't think they're ever going to be able to provide proof that completely exonerates them.

So they're guilty until proven innocent?

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

So they're guilty until proven innocent?

This isn't the US judicial system dane. There is a significant amount of evidence pointing to very shady behavior by a group of individuals who've lied about their relationships to each other and nature of their activities. Online poker is sort of "on the ropes" lately and its supporters are absolutely going to jump all over crap like this. The "jury" of their peers in this case is overwhelmingly leaning towards guilty right now. The burden of proof now lies with the accused.

[Canuckickstan 2]

This isn't the US judicial system dane. There is a significant amount of evidence pointing to very shady behavior by a group of individuals who've lied about their relationships to each other and nature of their activities. Online poker is sort of "on the ropes" lately and its supporters are absolutely going to jump all over crap like this. The "jury" of their peers in this case is overwhelmingly leaning towards guilty right now. The burden of proof now lies with the accused.

No need to resort to name calling here.

[fatman 1]

No need to resort to name calling here.

LOL

[Dogpatch 2]

No need to resort to name calling here.

He's just calling a spade, a spade.

[fatman 1]

He's just calling a Dane, a Dane.

FYP

[wsox8 10]

I read the first page of this thread and the long story on 2+2, what huge stuff am I missing? (Sorry I'm lazy and I don't feel like reading through all of it)

[Randy Reed 0]

If you've seen the room pic, I can't imagine 3 guys sitting that close for 6 hours a day and not getting some other setup. It looks more like it is set up for one person to be able to use. They say they have an invisible playbook that they each have memorized? ORLY? They also can't explain how that stats are that microscopiclly close other than that they all play by this invisible playbook that nlut developed.It's very close to being to the first evidence of bots being used and as Naked said, would be very bad for the game. It's also interesting to see if a suspected bot can be proven with statistical evidence.

[Randy Reed 0]

Things that make me think that something is wrong here:1. Brandon's actions throughout the thread.2. When asked why each player took so long to make even the simplist of decisions, the answer was that they were discussing amongst each other what to do. Obviously, if they were doing that and making situational folds/calls/bluffs that flies directly in the face of their rigid strategy story. Also, turn and river stats wouldn't be so close because of this.3. River bet stats. I don't any way that these could be so close, especially if each tough decision is discussed.4. That a bunch of guys who put such an effort into their system would have ABSOLUTLEY no interest in improving their play or moving up.5. The auto-folding of miniscule raises compared to pot-size. AT LEAST SOME of these should be called if only for meta-game.6. That when the OP signed on each of the three suspected bots AUTOMATICALLY left their games. Why would they do that? If it was a human sweatshop, wouldn't they just say to the other "hey, dude who is pwning us signed in. Don't sit at a table with him. Play in another game"7. That someone who couldn't install an anti-virus program is scripting and setting up computer sweatshops.Please, someone address these and the other unanswered questions.Tuco.

[DoinSublime 0]

I read the first page of this thread and the long story on 2+2, what huge stuff am I missing? (Sorry I'm lazy and I don't feel like reading through all of it)

Just a lot of little nuances that you really gotta read.The actual case, the philosophical argument, the math involved with the numbers, the limit of the human endurance factor as to playing long hours/tilting (and not tilting), the light spread on poker farms and bots in general; just a lot of little things to put together.Here is a small little nuance that has nothing to do with the actual story: Any struggling (or learning) micro stakes cash player would learn a ton about what better players do to exploit them by simply reading the thread. I was thinking this because it's obvious players are getting better at smaller and smaller stakes. Something like this thread is just another example of the street smarts trickling on down the chain through the widespread information that is more and more readily available as poker knowledge (and theory) continues to grow.

[DoinSublime 0]

If you've seen the room pic, I can't imagine 3 guys sitting that close for 6 hours a day and not getting some other setup. It looks more like it is set up for one person to be able to use.

I agree with this as well. If it just him, then obviously he was smart enough to put the 3 chairs in there, but they are tight, and beyond that, look at the furthest moniters to the left and right, both aimed well toward the middle, as well as the mouse pads are generally towards the center of the table. If it is just him, this is the type of thing that someone wouldn't think clearly about changing until after the fact, because they were busy thinking about the obvious (the chairs) and getting the picture posted to help try and prove his innocence, when he knows he is in fact guilty.

[wsox8 10]

Sorry but what page is the room pic on?

[DoinSublime 0]

Sorry but what page is the room pic on?

131 if you have it set to 10 posts per page.I'll post it here too.edit - here it is:By the way, every time Mark posts I am absolutely convinced for the time being it is a bot. I could be biased though, since here we all know that Mark > everything.

[fatman 1]

Not much room for three people to be sitting and playing all day long.

[DoinSublime 0]

Not much room for three people to be sitting and playing all day long.

Great point someone just brought up:

Understatement of the year. Take a look at the pic of their "setup". I spend a lot of time at my computer, or take a look at other pics of people's set-ups.Where is the clutter? Right now, I have an empty water bottle, a pack of cigs, an ash tray, a stack of old bills. Above my terminal are some baseball hats, a lamp, a book, and a box of envelopes. Next to my mouse pad is a pen.They play hours and hours, crammed together, and their isn't even a crumpled up candy wrapper to be found. RIGHT.Those monitors were place on a empty clean table for the pic, and some mismatched chairs shoved in front of them.

[BuffDan 0]

To ask a question to those who view bots as cheating because of the tilt control and endurance issue (which is a legitimate point that I think I agree with): what about a player who takes various drugs to control his emotions/give him extra endurance? Is he cheating?

[DoinSublime 0]

To ask a question to those who view bots as cheating because of the tilt control and endurance issue (which is a legitimate point that I think I agree with): what about a player who takes various drugs to control his emotions/give him extra endurance? Is he cheating?

I think the answer has to be no, and the reason is that for every advantage you achieve, at some point, you are going to suffer at the very least a proportionate disadvantage because of it. Sure you can blow 4 eight balls in a week and play non stop, but for most of the week after that you are going to be garbage and you probably won't be able to play at all, and if you do, then your patience/attention/tilt factor/overall equilibrium is going to be in the dumps.Cocaine is the most relevant, but the same would for grade A truckers speed, meth, etc.For every high (advantage), you will eventually have to deal with a low (disadvantage).edit - Just reread your post. As far as controlling emotions with something like ritalin, meh, that's minor everyday stuff, and if you're abusing it (snorting) to the point it is giving you an edge, then it falls into the same category as drugs because at some point, your saratonin is going to go to shit and your body and brain will have to recover just the same as any of the others.

[James D 0]

I think the room photo that you saw was slightly misleading... this is the original.

[rawkodd 0]

i still don't understand how ppl think it's only this guy on only ftp... gotta think that others are doing it on other sites