Heads Up Pl O8/b & Stud 8/b Starting Hands

[pmccaf02 0]

Daniel,I have been playing a friend heads up for a few weeks now. We play pot limit dealer's choice (excluding low ball because he won't play). I recently introduced Stud 8/b and Omaha 8/b into the mix, and my results have been poor. The cause might be variation, but I wonder if I am overplaying low hands early in the hand, especially after 4th street in stud. I definitely have a better understanding of both games (I have logged in ring game hours in both, whereas he had never played either game before and had to be explained the rules). My question is: What effect does changing the betting structure of an 8/b split pot game to pot limit have on starting hands? -Patrick-

[Zach6668 513]

Hi,Welcome to the forums.This section is for Daniel to pull hands/posts out of the strategy section if he feels the need to comment on them, and not for people to post strategy questions.I'm going to have to move this to the Omaha Hi-Lo forum or the Stud forum...- Zach

[pmccaf02 0]

Hi,Welcome to the forums.This section is for Daniel to pull hands/posts out of the strategy section if he feels the need to comment on them, and not for people to post strategy questions.I'm going to have to move this to the Omaha Hi-Lo forum or the Stud forum...- Zach

My bad Zach. I thought this was a forum to ask Daniel questions, and he would pick one.

[Vman96 0]

PL Stud 8/b?? The thought just scares me. I would think AA(baby) goes way up in value.I would discount three babies without an ace...unless they are suited or well connected.And if you are playing short or heads up. You can value big pairs more. KKQ (suited) is a slight fave over 345 (unsuited) headsup (I was a bit surprised by that)...Even A45 unsuited.It looks like big pairs are slight faves over most low hands heads up. The drawback playing these hands though is it is completely obvious whats in the hole usually. A big pair. A key in this game, I would think is to try to see most hands cheap and bail low hands if you brick on 4th (no pair or no low card).Another key...You must extract major value when you hit trips with your low hands. Most opponents will have a weaker high hand, and will call hoping to split.

[navybuttons 15]

i wrote a really long and great post and then thought better of it.low limit PLO8 SNGs, min-raise every button and c-bet 2/3rds pot every flop. fold every non-strong holding from the BB and rever raise from the BB. this will be enough to get a positive ROI in them, i swear.chamonyx, i've had a really rough life week, but will be back in full swing next week, i'll write you then. thank you for your patience.

[Vman96 0]

i wrote a really long and great post and then thought better of it.low limit PLO8 SNGs, min-raise every button and c-bet 2/3rds pot every flop. fold every non-strong holding from the BB and rever raise from the BB. this will be enough to get a positive ROI in them, i swear.chamonyx, i've had a really rough life week, but will be back in full swing next week, i'll write you then. thank you for your patience.

Against random opponents maybe, but he is playing a buddy here, so don't want to be too predictable. Hope you saved the longer post and hope things get better for you navy.

[navybuttons 15]

Against random opponents maybe, but he is playing a buddy here, so don't want to be too predictable. Hope you saved the longer post and hope things get better for you navy.

i didn't save the longer post, but if the OP PM's me i'll give him a really detailed guide for how to play HU PLO8. in 500 games at stars i think there is only one player who has a positive record against me (if we've played at least 5), and my ROI is like 16% (which is pretty sick for HU). PM me and i'll give some serious +EV HU PLO8 advice.the problem is that i play HU PLO8 SNGs almost exclusively and the player pool of regulars is so small i don't feel comfortable giving away everything in a public forum.life will get better, it always does. i hope everyone has a great weekend. best of luck at the tables.

[ahosang 0]

OP, you're a new poster, so i don't know how much you know, but you say you play all games and have played stud8/b, so I'll assume you've a good understanding of the limit game.PL stud8/b is a nice game, and i've played this and done very well in the past. I've never actually played it HU, but most of the games I play end up HU after 4th anyway, so hopefully my advice will help you.Well, PL games means increased use of position, pot-manipulation, and usually stronger hands to call bets with on later streets. stud8/b is a drawing and scooping game.So:Position - well in stud this goes to the lower board, so there is definite merit in playing low cards from this premise alone(never mind the equity strength which these hands may hold). The high card acts first, so the low hand may be in a advantageous position beyond 3rd(may take the free card, or bet, depending on how the boards look and opponent's tendencies)Assuming the BI is twice the ante and you play with 100BI, we can look at some general starting scenarios:A) you BI with door<9 and are raised by door(9-K)i) call with most pairs, split or not - re-raise if your pair is bigger than his doorii) call with all low str8(246) or flush(2c 5c 8c) - you could re-raise with A-low flushes or str8/flushes.iii) call with all rolled up(deception here as raiser may not have a pair and fold to a re-raise, yet fire another barrel on 4th if flat-called on 3rd)iv) call with Axx, where x is low(A27 etc) - this may depend on how aggressive your friend is on 4th. If he typically keeps blasting away, then you should release these on 3rd.v) fold all the restB) you BI with door<9, and are raised by door <9i) call with pairs < Queensii) re-raise with pairs > jacksiii) re-raise with rolled upiv) call with all low str8 or flushv) fold all the restC) you BI with door>8, and are raisedi) play as if it's PL stud-hi - i won't go into that in this thread.I was going to write out a mega-long post, but I'll stop here. I'm going out, but that's just a very rough idea of the hands i suggest. Also, a lot is debatable as to call or raise, because of course the style of your friend is very important in determining how you play. This applies to his 4th street tendencies as well. And you never mentioned the structure, but the deeper stacks you play(or lower antes), the more you want to concentrate on low hands. I assume you're playing live since PL stud8 isn't available on the web(tell me if it is!!), so physical reads will come into play.Also, your opponent's play(which you haven't expanded on) will determine whether you exchange steals a lot or whatever. For this reason, i haven't even attempted to cover the scenarios when you are 1st to act(he is the BI).Look at the scenarios in (A), and think about how you will act on 4th, given the different probablities of boards, and the hand equities and actions that are likely in those different situations.

[Vman96 0]

OP, you're a new poster, so i don't know how much you know, but you say you play all games and have played stud8/b, so I'll assume you've a good understanding of the limit game.PL stud8/b is a nice game, and i've played this and done very well in the past. I've never actually played it HU, but most of the games I play end up HU after 4th anyway, so hopefully my advice will help you.very useful info....

Great post! But you're right, I am not aware of PL stud 8/b existing online.

[ahosang 0]

Actually PL-stud8 is available at my new '2nd home' - poker.com network(merge). I'll play there if anyone is interested. Also inviting people to play badugi and other mixed games there. I'll cross-post in other forum.Anyone want to set up a game, just say so...

[checkymcfold 0]

wicked, i'd log some badugi hands against you guys. is poker.com a US-friendly site?

[ahosang 0]

wicked, i'd log some badugi hands against you guys. is poker.com a US-friendly site?

It is - you should have this site on your PC because it has badugi and some odd mixes available.In fact I'm interested in playing some of the mixes, and badugi too. The only thing is the rake is bad for HU, so it's best to play small stakes as strategy practice against each other, or better yet, arrange a few forumites so there can be a ring game of maybe 4 or more.

[antistuff 0]

It is - you should have this site on your PC because it has badugi and some odd mixes available.In fact I'm interested in playing some of the mixes, and badugi too. The only thing is the rake is bad for HU, so it's best to play small stakes as strategy practice against each other, or better yet, arrange a few forumites so there can be a ring game of maybe 4 or more.

i'll play small stakes games with you guys if somebody can trade me some money from full tilt to that site.

[ahosang 0]

i'll play small stakes games with you guys if somebody can trade me some money from full tilt to that site.

wtf???sign up with carbon poker and get rakeback if you can. If you do this and are willing to play some odd mixes, badugi and maybe PL stud8, i'll give u $25 to start.I love those sort of poker games.