3rd Nuts Facing River Bet

[linkwood 0]

Was playing at a local B & M in their 2-3-5 Spread Limit, 200 max buy in game the other night and a hand came up that's been buggin me. Relevant stack sizes:Hero - ~450Villian - ~450UTG +1 - ~400UTG +1 Limps, Hero calls in lp with Kc4c, button completes, sb completes, bb checks. Pot: $20 (after the $5 rape, i mean rake is removed)Flop: Ad Jc 9csb checks, bb checks, UTG +1 bets $20, Hero calls, Button folds, sb calls, bb folds.Turn: 10c (pot: $80)sb checks, UTG +1 bets, Hero bets $60, sb calls, UTG +1 callsRiver: Qd (pot: $260)sb bets $55, UTG +1 folds, Hero??Reads: SB was at the table for maybe 2 hours at this point but didn't play many hands, so I didn't have a solid read on him. He seemed somewhat solid for the game (relatively speaking). The only hand I played with him he flat called a flop bet and then raised the turn with what he said was a flopped set of 4s. The river bet seems like a blockish bet, but, in this game people don't know how to bet their hands (they don't keep track of the pot size, making it usually profitable to chase) and I was fairly confident from his body language that he was betting for value, like he had a strong made hand. He basically had one of four possible hands - ace high flush, straight flush, smaller flush, or the lone king, not seeing the flush out there. I know that if I raise I will get called by the two hands I'm beating and I'll get raised by the two hands I'm losing to, plus, I may get raised with a smaller flush (unlikely but possible if he thought I had was raising a lone king.). Its unlikely that he would have stayed in with a hand that contained a king on the flop unless he got stubborn with KJ, but I doubt he'd call the turn with that hand, so that hand is less likely. The other three hands all make sense the way the hand was played. Still, I'm fairly confident I have the best hand but I don't know if it is correct to raise on the end here, and, if so, how much? Comments on all streets welcome.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Welcome to the forum.It's horribly wrong not to raise on the river. If you think he has the straight (likely) then make a bet that he will call with the straight. I wouldn't call your hand the "3rd nuts" although it is, becuase I'm only worried about the A high flush. If he's got Q8c, good for him, but I'm not gonna preoccupy myself with that holding.I'm not folding this hand and I'm raising the river, probably in the neighborhood of $125 more if I think he has the straight and all-in if I think he has a lesser flush. You can't play scared in a situation like this and not raising is nothing less than criminal.

[Zach6668 513]

It's the 4th nuts. :PAxc, Q8c, 78c.I still raise 100% of the time.

[Naismith 0]

f he's got Q8c, good for him, but I'm not gonna preoccupy myself with that holding.

"I raise 125."Villain says, "I'm all in."Acid thinks long and hard."I guess I have to pay off the ace-high flush here or if you have Qc8c, huzzah for you. I call. Do you have either of those?"Villain says, "Nope."Acid does his typical taunting dance, pumping his first in his opponent's face while singing repeatedly, "Ship it. Shiiiiiip it! SHIP SHIP SHIP IT! SHUUUUU-IP IT!"Villain flips over the 7c-8c. GG.EDIT: Also, to include some content...raise.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Acid does his typical taunting dance, pumping his first in his opponent's face while singing repeatedly, "Ship it. Shiiiiiip it! SHIP SHIP SHIP IT! SHUUUUU-IP IT!"

That's not typical.What is typical is that anytime someone questions my play, I always respond with "but I won the pot so I must not have done anything wrong."When you have a good poker face and they think you're serious, you'd be surprised how much that can push someone off the deep end.

[linkwood 0]

Yeah. At the time it seemed like a tough decision. I chickened out and just called, and then sheepishly raked the pot after he tabled the queen high flush. Oh well. Thinking back it seems pretty standard to raise there. Thanks for confirming that and for the welcome. I've been reading the forums a lot and respect your games quite a bit.

[Lavitz 0]

I probably raise the river for most casino opponents but he sounds tight from what you said so im 50/50 for raising or calling....but I wouldn't play K4s p-flop either.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I probably raise the river for most casino opponents but he sounds tight from what you said so im 50/50 for raising or calling....but I wouldn't play K4s p-flop either.

No matter if it's the tighest person I've ever seen, I'm not gonna hold back from raising here. They are going to bet any flush on the river and you have the 2nd nut flush (ignoring SFs) and you absolutely have to raise here.

[linkwood 0]

I probably raise the river for most casino opponents but he sounds tight from what you said so im 50/50 for raising or calling....but I wouldn't play K4s p-flop either.

Yeah, I know it was a very loose call. The table was fairly easy though, I had a rather TAG image, and, honestly, i was bored. So I decided to play. Looking back though its much better to raise than just call, but oh well.