Bankroll Management

[Erasa 0]

I am sure this has been debated a few times, but I don't recall seeing it recently.Can one of you point me to a good site or recommend a (recent) book that talks about what size roll is needed for different levels?Or maybe there is a rule of thumb? When people talk about buy-in is it automatically assumed that we are talking about the max buy-in for a particular level?Are any accommodations made for whether you are typically a TAG or a LAG (I would assume the variance is bigger for a TAG) when deciding on what level you can play with a certain roll?I'm obviously a newbie (to ring games), so any advice would have to cover the low end of buy-ins to be helpful for me.Thanks in advanceErasaP.S. On a completely separate topic; has anyone tried www.donkeytest.com? Suffice to say I am not ready to move up the levels but I wonder how some of you stronger players would fare - can I assume that a DN would ace the test? (Warning: you have to submit a valid email address at the end to get the results)

[tuckermitchell 1]

no offense, but this has to be one of the top 5 most made new threads, and due to this fact...I had leftover spaghetti for lunch. And broke my microwave while making it. GG life.

[QuietConfidence 0]

http://www.pocketfives.com/5C57520F-8A89-4...D240CB3E59.aspx

[Granite 0]

Hey Erasa,Welcome to the forum, and excuse the inevitable posts about meals (made when a topic is brought up which has already been discussed ad nauseum). Every new player who is serious about building a bankroll brings this up and needs clear answers. Unfortunately, there are none.THE most important concept that you should consider about this is whatever rule you set out for yourself should be followed strictly. This is rarely easy, and probably the most common cause for failure among new (and experienced) players. I guess I'm in the beginner to intermediate stages of on-line poker play, and still make mistakes.On to the math...A lot of people say that your bankroll should contain at least 300 times the amount of the big blind. So, if you sit at a .05/.10 table, then you should have about $30. If your target is to move up to the .10/.25 tables, then you should try to build up your bank roll to $75 before you do so.However you want to massage these numbers is up to you. For example if you want to have 500 times the big blind, then just make the appropriate changes. Personally, when I'm being disciplined I calculate about 300 times the big AND small blinds (makes me feel better). So at .05/.10, my initial contribution to the BR is $45, and I move on from there.That's not all Erasa. This is where the hard part comes into play. Let's assume that you're doing well in the initial stages of your plan. You've built the $30 to about $75, and you move up in limits. The move itself might contribute to a more challenging type of poker and you may have difficulty building that up to the next level.You have to ask yourself, and set rules about how you will drop back down to the previous level if or when you BR declines. This is where the mistakes are made, either by people not setting this rule, or not following it when it is set.For example, if I've made it to $75 and I'm now on the .10/.25 tables, and I find my roll shrinking to about $50 or $55, then I have to swallow my pride, close that table down, and return to the .05/.10 tables, until I get back up to $75.Have I ever done that successfully? No, unfortunately. But I plan to try it again in the near future. It takes a tonne of discipline to follow any rules that you set, but if you do... it's very likely that you only ever have to make a deposit once.Good luck and I hope this helps you.PS. I've been assuming you're talking about cash games. Tournaments are a whole different issue. I don't know enough about that to contibute anything. Anyone else??

[Erasa 0]

no offense, but this has to be one of the top 5 most made new threads, and due to this fact...I had leftover spaghetti for lunch. And broke my microwave while making it. GG life.

My apologies; I was afraid that might be the case. Unfortunately I don't have as much time as I would like to be real hard core in reading this forum so I am sure I miss alot. If I may make a suggestion: I used to manage large software development teams and it was always a pain bringing new developers up to speed. So when a situation like this arose where somebody asked a "newbie" question the quick response from the tenured developers would be "RTFM" (read the f.... manual). Same thing here; create an FAQ and put the consensus answers to the top 5 most often asked questions in there. That way instead of the rather useless reply about your lunch (although I am sorry to read about your micro wave oven) you could simply post "read the FAQ" (although in my case I always read the FAQ first where one is available to avoid this situation).Did you read the P.S. on my thread; hopefully that was something to new to you so you didn't completely waste your time reading my post - or maybe that is the 6th most often new thread.Finally thanks to the poster that actually posted a useful answer. I bookmarked it and will dig through it - thank you.RegardsErasa

[Erasa 0]

Hey Erasa,Welcome to the forum, and excuse the inevitable posts about meals (made when a topic is brought up which has already been discussed ad nauseum). Every new player who is serious about building a bankroll brings this up and needs clear answers. Unfortunately, there are none......PS. I've been assuming you're talking about cash games. Tournaments are a whole different issue. I don't know enough about that to contibute anything. Anyone else??

Excellent -I was writing my previous post while you posted this one. Lots of good information; yes - I'm talking cash games. I have done a lot of SnG but I am completely new to cash games so right now I'm doing the newbie tables $0.5 - $1.0 - so far about even but wide swings.Thanks againErasa

[no not baxter 0]

I am assuming you are talking about NL because who the hell plays limit anymore...LOL @ $30 for .05/.10. That is 3 buyins...erasa--the pocket fives link is the best info you are going to get. Go there and it should tell you everything you need to know.

[pokerinc 0]

the bb rule is for limit.buy ins is the gauge for nl. 20x the buy in for whatever you play. 300 bb at least for limit for the levels you prob. play. Bookmark the pocket fives article it's good.

[CrazyJoe 0]

Hey Erasa,Welcome to the forum, and excuse the inevitable posts about meals (made when a topic is brought up which has already been discussed ad nauseum). Every new player who is serious about building a bankroll brings this up and needs clear answers. Unfortunately, there are none.THE most important concept that you should consider about this is whatever rule you set out for yourself should be followed strictly. This is rarely easy, and probably the most common cause for failure among new (and experienced) players. I guess I'm in the beginner to intermediate stages of on-line poker play, and still make mistakes.On to the math...A lot of people say that your bankroll should contain at least 300 times the amount of the big blind. So, if you sit at a .05/.10 table, then you should have about $30. If your target is to move up to the .10/.25 tables, then you should try to build up your bank roll to $75 before you do so.However you want to massage these numbers is up to you. For example if you want to have 500 times the big blind, then just make the appropriate changes. Personally, when I'm being disciplined I calculate about 300 times the big AND small blinds (makes me feel better). So at .05/.10, my initial contribution to the BR is $45, and I move on from there.That's not all Erasa. This is where the hard part comes into play. Let's assume that you're doing well in the initial stages of your plan. You've built the $30 to about $75, and you move up in limits. The move itself might contribute to a more challenging type of poker and you may have difficulty building that up to the next level.You have to ask yourself, and set rules about how you will drop back down to the previous level if or when you BR declines. This is where the mistakes are made, either by people not setting this rule, or not following it when it is set.For example, if I've made it to $75 and I'm now on the .10/.25 tables, and I find my roll shrinking to about $50 or $55, then I have to swallow my pride, close that table down, and return to the .05/.10 tables, until I get back up to $75.Have I ever done that successfully? No, unfortunately. But I plan to try it again in the near future. It takes a tonne of discipline to follow any rules that you set, but if you do... it's very likely that you only ever have to make a deposit once.Good luck and I hope this helps you.PS. I've been assuming you're talking about cash games. Tournaments are a whole different issue. I don't know enough about that to contibute anything. Anyone else??

wrong, wrong, wrong. the 300 BB guideline is BIG BETS, not BIG BLINDS and is for FIXED LIMIT ONLY. 300 big blinds is only 3 full buy ins at no limit, that's just retarded.

[Granite 0]

You guys are both right, and Erasa - sorry for misleading you there. My lack of experience definitely shows.But to the guys who corrected me, understand that the main point of my post was not the math.It's the concepts of following whatever rules you set for yourself that should ultimately lead to success.Granted, I'm a little embarrassed about the math, but also relieved that when I do try to build my bankroll, I'll have some more accurate information on how to go about doing it.I'm still quite new at the on-line thing.Thanks all who corrected me, and sorry Erasa - hopefully, my advice hasn't screwed you up too much there.Peace.

[erac22 0]

I haven't read the P5's thread, but keep in mind that as your roll grows it becomes more important to protect it. I was playing .25/.5nl with about $1500 (30 buy ins) but didn't move up to 5/10nl until i had closer to 75 buy ins. Of course, there is also a difference between total bankroll and working capital (total bankroll being any money you have available for poker, while working capital is what you keep online). However, with the new restrictions on deposits, working capital pretty much became most people's entire bankroll, as the rest of their funds can no longer get online (at least in large quantity). Bankroll and working capital decisions are largely dependent on your own playing style, attitude, and personality. Whatever "rules" you come across, you will most likely have to tweak to your own standards.erac

[JoblessBast 0]

the bb rule is for limit.buy ins is the gauge for nl. 20x the buy in for whatever you play. 300 bb at least for limit for the levels you prob. play. Bookmark the pocket fives article it's good.

What about for NL cap games? Do you just copy the buy ins gauge for the same level of NL game?

[allinbluff35 0]

50 buyins minimum for NLHE500 bigbet minimum for LHE100 buyin minimum for MTT's that's what i've always *tried* to use, i actually used those amounts about 10% of the time, probably why i'm busto.

[JoblessBast 0]

50 buyins minimum for NLHE

So yes? Same goes for CAP games?

[allinbluff35 0]

So yes? Same goes for CAP games?

i'm to lazy to go look at maximum buyins for cap games, so tell me what buyin is for levels and blinds.

[JoblessBast 0]

i'm to lazy to go look at maximum buyins for cap games, so tell me what buyin is for levels and blinds.

I don't think there is a max buy-in for cap games.