aussiedonk 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Hi guysI just downloaded poker EV. For my first 50k hands, the total winnings line is signifcantly above the other two lines for the whole graph. I think I have read somewhere that this can be as good thing a you'e picking up a lot of dead money, etc. In my case I think it's probably a bad thing as I haven't done particularly well overall (slight winner), and this seems to be the most glaring anomaly. Does it mean I am being over aggo? I really have no idea so any input is appreciated.Also I am up about $5K in all in luck but the slansky bucks and showdown winnings are about equal. Does this mean I am running well in all in pots but badly in pots that go to showdown but are not all in? OR something else entirely? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Hi guysI just downloaded poker EV. For my first 50k hands, the total winnings line is signifcantly above the other two lines for the whole graph. I think I have read somewhere that this can be as good thing a you'e picking up a lot of dead money, etc. In my case I think it's probably a bad thing as I haven't done particularly well overall (slight winner), and this seems to be the most glaring anomaly. Does it mean I am being over aggo? I really have no idea so any input is appreciated.Also I am up about $5K in all in luck but the slansky bucks and showdown winnings are about equal. Does this mean I am running well in all in pots but badly in pots that go to showdown but are not all in? OR something else entirely?Post the graph. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Hi guysI just downloaded poker EV. For my first 50k hands, the total winnings line is signifcantly above the other two lines for the whole graph. I think I have read somewhere that this can be as good thing a you'e picking up a lot of dead money, etc. In my case I think it's probably a bad thing as I haven't done particularly well overall (slight winner), and this seems to be the most glaring anomaly. Does it mean I am being over aggo? I really have no idea so any input is appreciated.Also I am up about $5K in all in luck but the slansky bucks and showdown winnings are about equal. Does this mean I am running well in all in pots but badly in pots that go to showdown but are not all in? OR something else entirely?Reminds me of this: Link to post Share on other sites
aussiedonk 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Post the graph.how do I do this? Link to post Share on other sites
chgocubs99 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Reminds me of this:Link doesn't work for me...also can you reply to my post in your other thread? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 how do I do this?Save image and upload to an image hosting site like photobucket or imageshack. Get the direct link and post it here. Link to post Share on other sites
aussiedonk 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Save image and upload to an image hosting site like photobucket or imageshack. Get the direct link and post it here.**** that was hard I am an idiot. Hopefully this works. It is mostly at 2/4 6-max with some 1/2http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn77/da...t6-3--23-40.png Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 LOL, poor guy. First this hand, where he totally slow rolls me on the flop call:Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $3/$64 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $627NoSup4U: $620.85SB: $724BB: $591Pre-flop: (4 players) NoSup4U is Button with UTG folds, NoSup4U raises to $18, SB raises to $72, BB folds, NoSup4U calls.Flop: ($150, 2 players)SB bets $98, NoSup4U raises to $325, SB raises all-in $652, NoSup4U calls all-in $223.85.Uncalled bets: $103.15 returned to SB.Turn: ($1247.7, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $1247.7)River: ($1247.7, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $1247.7)Results:Final pot: $1247.7SB showed Tc ThNoSup4U showed 8c 7cThen this one goes down 2 hands later. LOL tagfish :)Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $3/$65 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $394CO: $600Button: $582SB: $635.25NoSup4U: $1245.70Pre-flop: (5 players) NoSup4U is BB with UTG folds, CO raises to $21, Button calls, SB folds, NoSup4U calls.Flop: ($66, 3 players)NoSup4U checks, CO bets $48, Button folds, NoSup4U raises to $145, CO raises to $318, NoSup4U raises to $540, CO calls.Turn: ($1146, 2 players)NoSup4U is all-in $829.7, CO calls all-in $184.Uncalled bets: $645.7 returned to NoSup4U. River: ($1514, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $1514)Results:Final pot: $1514CO showed 9s TdNoSup4U showed 5h 2hMark Link to post Share on other sites
chgocubs99 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Need results on both of those hands pls Mark Link to post Share on other sites
KHSPoker21 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 **** that was hard I am an idiot. Hopefully this works. It is mostly at 2/4 6-max with some 1/2http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn77/da...t6-3--23-40.png I don't get it, srsly. Simo, as our resident expert. is it just a really bad run of variance that keeps is SB~ breakeven for 50k hands? Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Need results on both of those hands pls MarkFixed. Converter settings got lost before, had to reset them.MarkEdit: But results are, I won like always ldo!!! Link to post Share on other sites
chgocubs99 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Any reason you were defending your BB with 52, or just varying play? Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I don't get it, srsly. Simo, as our resident expert. is it just a really bad run of variance that keeps is SB~ breakeven for 50k hands?The SB has nothing to do with how good you are as a player. I'll just find a couple examples and get back to you. Link to post Share on other sites
aussiedonk 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 The SB has nothing to do with how good you are as a player. I'll just find a couple examples and get back to you.No I have a feeling it means I call waaaay too much when I know I'm beat. V interested to hear what simo has to say Link to post Share on other sites
SlapStick 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 No I have a feeling it means I call waaaay too much when I know I'm beat. V interested to hear what simo has to saylolI think Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 No I have a feeling it means I call waaaay too much when I know I'm beat. V interested to hear what simo has to say This is my graph for the last month. It is a representation of your style. If your green line is positive, you are winning and if you are winning at a decent rate, that is what ultimately matters. My style involved shoving and raising people a lot at HU and so my green line (top line for colorblind folk) is way above the others because I win most of my money by forcing my opponents out of the pot. The blue line (middle) is above the red which means that I ran hot.In any typical month for me, my green line basically always looks like this and my red/blue lines hover around even or slightly positive/slightly negative. A lot of people win more at showdown, but because of my style, when I go to showdown, often it's because I had shoved on someone on the flop or turn and got called and was losing or drawing dead. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 but this counts against rakeback anyways, right?Nope, that's what makes the Ironman mid-year and year-end bonuses so awesome. Doesn't count against rakeback = cool $575 in my pockets in July. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Any reason you were defending your BB with 52, or just varying play?I would fold if just one player was in, but since there was a caller, and pf raiser was likely to be a little tilty since I'd just stacked him, I thought it might be a good place to peel a flop.If I had say, 54s there, I would defend even with just one player in the pot. If he was bad, I'd just call, and if he was a good player, I'd probably 3bet it.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
aussiedonk 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 This is my graph for the last month. It is a representation of your style. If your green line is positive, you are winning and if you are winning at a decent rate, that is what ultimately matters. My style involved shoving and raising people a lot at HU and so my green line (top line for colorblind folk) is way above the others because I win most of my money by forcing my opponents out of the pot. The blue line (middle) is above the red which means that I ran hot.In any typical month for me, my green line basically always looks like this and my red/blue lines hover around even or slightly positive/slightly negative. A lot of people win more at showdown, but because of my style, when I go to showdown, often it's because I had shoved on someone on the flop or turn and got called and was losing or drawing dead.Ty for that - encouraging!What do other ppl's 6-max graphs look like? The ones I can find seem to have the green line in the negative and the other lines way positive (?)Whatever the graphs say I am definitely a massive station so need to work on that. Also got my new desktop with dual 24" mionitors delivered today woooo no more laptop! Link to post Share on other sites
chgocubs99 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Ty for that - encouraging!What do other ppl's 6-max graphs look like? The ones I can find seem to have the green line in the negative and the other lines way positive (?)Whatever the graphs say I am definitely a massive station so need to work on that. Also got my new desktop with dual 24" mionitors delivered today woooo no more laptop!Somwhere a couple hundred pages back there are a ton of graphs posted. Most do not look like Acid's...actually he is the only one in this thread that I can remember having a graph that looks like that at all. Someone posted a link to a 2+2 graph that was pretty nuts, with a guy losing a ton of money at showdown but winning an even more ridiculous amount of money without showdown, so it is possible.Like he said, it is a stylistic thing, with his style being to push people off hands. Others will try to showdown the best hand, so their green line is below their blue line. Looks like your style correlates to Acid's, which is fine if you can make it work without being spewy. Few can...so props to both of you. Link to post Share on other sites
KHSPoker21 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 The SB has nothing to do with how good you are as a player. I'll just find a couple examples and get back to you.I know, but I thought SB was an indication of your value in hands vs the flop type of deal, so the idea of hovering around $0 just didn't make sense. ty Link to post Share on other sites
aussiedonk 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Somwhere a couple hundred pages back there are a ton of graphs posted. Most do not look like Acid's...actually he is the only one in this thread that I can remember having a graph that looks like that at all. Someone posted a link to a 2+2 graph that was pretty nuts, with a guy losing a ton of money at showdown but winning an even more ridiculous amount of money without showdown, so it is possible.Like he said, it is a stylistic thing, with his style being to push people off hands. Others will try to showdown the best hand, so their green line is below their blue line. Looks like your style correlates to Acid's, which is fine if you can make it work without being spewy. Few can...so props to both of you.lol there is my problem Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I don't get it, srsly. Simo, as our resident expert. is it just a really bad run of variance that keeps is SB~ breakeven for 50k hands?I love this graph. It's a guy called Fabian, who is now a cardrunners instructor.In pots that go to showdown he is breakeven, and yet he is a HUGE winner. That's because he plays very aggressively and wins a lot of pots by bluffing, semibluffing, and value betting thin. This is an exceptional graph (in the true sense of the word). Most people either cannot, or do not, play this aggressively whilst still being profitable.Compare that with the most famous PokerEV graph ever made, that of Fgators:He is/was basically a predictable TAG. Bet when he had a hand, check/folded when he didn't. Players with graphs like this don't double barrel air. They don't value bet thin. They give up on a lot of pots they shouldn't.Your graph:You're obviously an aggressive player, because you make money in non showdown pots. That isn't always a good thing though - it could mean you're playing overaggressive and bluffing/semibluffing too much, and looking people up too light. Most decent 6max players lose a smallish amount in non showdown pots. The green and blue lines are usually fairly close, although it is generally fine for the green line to be a small amount below the blue line.You ran very good (about +8k on what you should be) for a while, and then over the last 28k hands you've come crashing back to earth basically. I'd suggest you look through the filters and look back at the graphs to see where you are losing money, and where you're making money. Filter for 1 pair hands, filter for flush draws, filter for oesds, filter for anything you can think. Filter for small pairs OOP, filter for suited connectors in position, filter for everything. Look to see if there's an area of your game that is causing a problem. That's really something only you can do, because only you have access to your database.If you look over the last 28k hands, you've not made anything in non showdown winnings (green hasn't risen further from blue) and you have lost a lot in showdown winnings too. I think you are probably slightly over a breakeven player at the moment, but I don't think it would take too much to tweak your game in the right direction.Try posting your PT stats (both general stats and position stats), and it might become apparent that you have a leak somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
king1305 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Any reason you were defending your BB with 52, or just varying play?Come on, it's Mark! 52s looks to him like QQ looks to a normal person.Nope, that's what makes the Ironman mid-year and year-end bonuses so awesome. Doesn't count against rakeback = cool $575 in my pockets in July.Serious? I thought it was deducted? Shippppp! Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Any reason you were defending your BB with 52, or just varying play?Did you not see the flop? Link to post Share on other sites
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