What Happened To The Word "liberal" In The Us?

[Mr. DNA 0]

Why should you have to?"Human being" tends to be the label i go with.Believe what you believe, since nobody is ever going to agree exactly the same way why try to fit it into that mold?

Good point. However, it seems to me that there is a middle ground here which is being forgotten about. If we talk only of liberals and conservatives, where is the middle ground? It seems that if you vote Republican you're a 'Conservative', whereas if you vote Democrat, you're branded a 'Liberal'. This isn't right, as I'm pretty sure that I would vote Democrat, if I were an American, but my views are very far removed from the definitions of 'liberal' that have been bandied about over the last few pages. In Britain, we tend to have three main political classifications: left wing, right wing and 'the centre', with varying degrees of designation in-between. I, myself, would consider myself left-wing, leaning to the centre. I am pretty far removed from the American definition of 'liberal', yet if I lived there would I not be branded a 'liberal', and all the negative connotations that go along with such a label?Interestingly, the word 'liberal' is actually something to aspire to be known as in Britain, whereas the term 'conservative', is seen as a rather old-fashioned and out-of-date label. Very few young people in Britain would want to be known as a 'conservative', and even most conservatives here would say that they are liberal. It's all very confusing!

[jmkiser 0]

Everyone must understand that there is a modern American definition for the terms Liberal and Conservative. They don't mean what they, typically, mean on a global level.In these modern definitions... liberal refers to the people under the typical Democrat label... everything from poor tree-hugging hippies to rich intelligent elitists.... conservative refers to the people under the typical Republican label... from the redneck confederate-flag-wavers to the pompous family-value fundamentalist Christians....A person who is to the extreme is considered "far-right" or "far-left" and most people in America who are middle class are considered more of the middle... there are basic republicans... democrats... moderates... and even independents.The reason our country's leaders, though, always end up being a touch farther to the left or right then people tend to like is due to the fact that our primaries create issues for America. During the primaries, you get a MUCH less % of those moderates and independents that come out and vote for the more "middle-ground" candidates. The primaries are more for the rich intelligent elitists and the family-value Christian fundamentalists then it is for the average voter. This is why Kerry got a surprising win out of the primaries and why the Bush family has been so prevalent in the Republican Party.There is also a new conservative movement coming to basis... the "moral/value-based" people that all sit there and throw stones at liberals every day of the week on talk radio. Quite hypocritical if you ask me... Either way, I'm neither. I dislike liberals because I can't stand the thought of the federal government getting any MORE power. I hate the conservatives even more because I have to deal with every single type of those idiots in my home state of Indiana.You can put me in with that party we call the Libertarian party :-) What people don't understand about Libertarians is that we're not all the same. We have many people that consider themselves liberal-libertarians, conservative-libertarians... and we have extremes from people who believe in anarchy to people who believe in a strong, but limited, federal government. Something all Libertarians pretty much agree about, though, is that our current government system is extremely flawed with WAY too much power... we are all, also, EXTREMELY worried about the state of our freedoms.I am among the lines of the extremely limited federal government with power spread among the people and local societies. For domestic issues that need to be voted on nationally, I support having the people vote on them. Issues with education, taxes, etc. I extremely dislike that the reason our country is considered democratic is just because we get to vote on our leaders. That's very very sad to me. I am also extremely worried about a lot of issues that are just flatly misrepresented in this country. The war in drugs is hurting America. Especially the hypocritical laws allowing cigarettes and alcohol, but denying marijuana. Recycling is a pure waste of money and landfills have their place and purpose in this country. The only thing worth recycling is aluminum. I am utterly pissed off at the ridiculous, archaic and, supposedly, ethics-based laws regarding gambling, time of purchasing alcohol, etc. Everything should be legal on Sunday as it is every other day of the week. People should also be able to run their own poker rooms, blackjack tables, etc. NO ETHICS BASED LAWS ALLOWED! I am also for the government staying out of people's connections to the internet.... completely. etc etc etc etc etc etc I think you get the picture

[Balloon guy 158]

Don't worry, I have a lot more important things to be doing with my time than waxing lyrical over 50 pages with lost causes like balloon man. He disappeared rather sharpish did he not?Regardless of what your distaste may be for socialism, it is far from the doctrine of communism. That is what I was asserting, nothing more.Please explain what you mean by pro-states-rights.Also, please forgive my tendency to paint Conservatives who don't understand the meaning of the term 'liberal' as racist homophobes. Clearly, there are a lot of racist homophobes in America who are Conservatives. There are even more who are not racist but who are homophobic. Living in Britain, my eyes tend to "roll" whenever I hear a Southern United States accent, such is the level of fundamentalist Christianity in that part of the world who treat gay people like second-class citizens. But the tendency in America to demonise those who would call themselves 'liberal' is rather shocking to British ears, as even the Conservatives here are a fairly liberal bunch.I admit that I posted rather quickly and imparted some of my own prejudices in this post when they were unwarranted. However, as I have stated, to British ears, hearing someone call liberals 'communists' is pretty shocking and that is what I was reacting to.

Had to work, Own my own business and when it's got to get done, I drive the ship. So sorry if I ran off.I really love England and will therefore not talk bad about your country. London is my favorite city in the world that's not in the USA.You how ever are a bit dense. I suspect your bad teeth has now rotted your brain.What is called a liberal in GB is not the same as in the US. To correct my understanding with your perspective shows that you sir are in serious need of a clue.Come on, do your politicians/judges still really feel the need to wear wigs?If you cannot refrain from using your pathetic excuse for logic to call me names than please feel free to press the PWR button on the front of your computer. It will help us save internet space that you are wasting.And I really love your definitions of liberal and communist.A socialist is someone who wants the weath of a nation fairly distributed.But a communist is someone that wants the government to chose how the weath is distributed?Yea, miles apart there, miles. ( or Kilometers for you people that don't understand miles)Next time I'm in London you can pretend you're tough and call me a homophobe etc. If your teeth haven't rotted the rest of your brain.

[jmkiser 0]

If your teeth haven't rotted the rest of your brain.

Ouch!The one thing I will defend him about is his correct view of the way Americans treat gay people. Everyone isn't homophobic, but I think I could detect a sense of sarcasm in that statement from him... amirite?

[Balloon guy 158]

Ouch!The one thing I will defend him about is his correct view of the way Americans treat gay people. Everyone isn't homophobic, but I think I could detect a sense of sarcasm in that statement from him... amirite?

I live in one of the most populated gay areas in America. They live in the nicest homes, have nice cars and good jobs.I think the victim label is a bit of a stretch. Resistant to their desires for social change, yes.Anti-Gay, no.

[Balloon guy 158]

I guess Mr DNA ran away since he didn't answer me quickly.No wonder stupid people use bad logic. It makes you seem right more often. I might have to try this sometime.Nah, I can't be that self-deluding. England is in a different time zone, therefore he is asleep.

[jmkiser 0]

Ah, I guess we differ on where we live. I live in an area where it's not 100% smart to admit your gay. Especially if you live in one of our state's small towns where everyone just happens to know everyone else. Not that you'll be treated, necessarily, with outright disdain (although that is more likely then might be thought), but you will be treated much differently then if you were to never say anything at all.Plus, the fact that homosexuality isn't as widely accepted in America as it is in a country like England is quite true.... mainly among men and fundamentalist Christians.

[jmkiser 0]

I guess Mr DNA ran away since he didn't answer me quickly.No wonder stupid people use bad logic. It makes you seem right more often. I might have to try this sometime.Nah, I can't be that self-deluding. England is in a different time zone, therefore he is asleep.

[Mr. DNA 0]

I live in one of the most populated gay areas in America. They live in the nicest homes, have nice cars and good jobs.I think the victim label is a bit of a stretch. Resistant to their desires for social change, yes.Anti-Gay, no.

Don't worry, I actually have read your other post where, amongst other things, you attack the state of my teeth and hope that I understand the notion of miles, even though we were using miles in this country before your people had a distinct accent. (By the way- I'm not English, I'm Scottish).Concerning socialism being akin to communism, perhaps in America, where the term 'liberal' has been bastardised to mean something wholly distinct from its original meaning, they are both one and the same. In Britain, however, the party which is in power at the moment, Labour, is considered to be a socialist party. It is the left-wing alternative to the right-wing Conservatives. It is not communism; indeed, Britain once had a communist party, but as communism is even less popular than gallbladder stones, it didn't last long. Also, what 'desires for social change' are you resistant to gay people enjoying? Sounds like jazzed up homophobia to me.

[Mr. DNA 0]

In these modern definitions... liberal refers to the people under the typical Democrat label... everything from poor tree-hugging hippies to rich intelligent elitists....

I see; your definition does not seem to be compatible with Balloon guy's statement: "...the people who call themselves liberal are really socialist/communist." Don't know about anyone else, but I don't know too many rich, elitist communists. By that rational, if you fall on the side of the political divide which isn't Republican, using Balloon guy's logic, you're no better than a damn commie traitor!

[Balloon guy 158]

Don't worry, I actually have read your other post where, amongst other things, you attack the state of my teeth and hope that I understand the notion of miles, even though we were using miles in this country before your people had a distinct accent. (By the way- I'm not English, I'm Scottish).So you're too cheap to go to the dentist?Concerning socialism being akin to communism, perhaps in America, where the term 'liberal' has been bastardised to mean something wholly distinct from its original meaning, they are both one and the same. In Britain, however, the party which is in power at the moment, Labour, is considered to be a socialist party. It is the left-wing alternative to the right-wing Conservatives. It is not communism; indeed, Britain once had a communist party, but as communism is even less popular than gallbladder stones, it didn't last long. Also, what 'desires for social change' are you resistant to gay people enjoying? Sounds like jazzed up homophobia to me.

If you agree to the bolded part above, then why were you calling me an imbicile? That is exactly what I said, that the American liberal is part and parcel quasi-socialist/communist. If you chose to pretend that we were talking about England, than that is your fault.I do always love though how the more enlightened 'liberal' side always starts the name calling. No one ever made a remote comment about homosexuas, but you have now made 3 attempts at labeling me a homophobe. Personally I think your boyfriend left you recently and your still angry.Isn't Tony Blair in the labour party? I guess his involvement with the war was based on his desire to socialize the Iraqi's oil?

[Balloon guy 158]

I see; your definition does not seem to be compatible with Balloon guy's statement: "...the people who call themselves liberal are really socialist/communist." Don't know about anyone else, but I don't know too many rich, elitist communists. By that rational, if you fall on the side of the political divide which isn't Republican, using Balloon guy's logic, you're no better than a damn commie traitor!

Why do all commie's have to be traitors?

[Mr. DNA 0]

I do always love though how the more enlightened 'liberal' side always starts the name calling. No one ever made a remote comment about homosexuas, but you have now made 3 attempts at labeling me a homophobe. Personally I think your boyfriend left you recently and your still angry.

Nice avoidance of the question. What're you, a lawyer? What social changes do homosexuals want to implement that you are resistant to?

[Balloon guy 158]

Nice avoidance of the question. What're you, a lawyer? What social changes do homosexuals want to implement that you are resistant to?

4

[Mr. DNA 0]

4

Your inability or unwillingness to answer the question posed demonstrates your embarrassment at the thought of publicly announcing your backwards prejudices. You could have lied and said that you have no problem with any minority, and that you think everyone should be treated equally, instead of digging yourself into this rather large hole.

[Balloon guy 158]

Your inability or unwillingness to answer the question posed demonstrates your embarrassment at the thought of publicly announcing your backwards prejudices. You could have lied and said that you have no problem with any minority, and that you think everyone should be treated equally, instead of digging yourself into this rather large hole.

Yep, you are a joke account. Noone can be this dumb.You got me good.Is this you Chozzo?

[Mr. DNA 0]

Yep, you are a joke account. Noone can be this dumb.You got me good.Is this you Chozzo?

If you don't want to be thought a bigot, you shouldn't accuse minorities of attempting to enforce social change that you are unhappy about, and then refuse to divulge exactly what proposed subversions of the current legislature it is that offends you. A simple explanation would have sufficed, instead of your current nonsensical replies which seem to imply your 'guilt'.Edit: Come on Balloon guy, what're you writing, an essay?

[Balloon guy 158]

If you don't want to be thought a bigot, you shouldn't accuse minorities of attempting to enforce social change that you are unhappy about, and then refuse to divulge exactly what proposed subversions of the current legislature it is that offends you. A simple explanation would have sufficed, instead of your current nonsensical replies which seem to imply your 'guilt'.Edit: Come on Balloon guy, what're you writing, an essay?

well done,I start by saying liberals are socialist, and now I muct defend myself from being a bigot and a homophobe.well done.And I don't write essays, I hire people to do that kind of thing for me.I still think this is chrozzo

[TylerSalzman 0]

Except for Balloon guy, he's cool, even though I may disagree with everything he says. He argues his side pretty well and is funny.

[Balloon guy 158]

Except for Balloon guy, he's cool, even though I may disagree with everything he says. He argues his side pretty well and is good looking.

FYP

[BWToth 0]

Mr. DNA, I'm trying to catch up in this thread. What statement did Balloon Guy initally make that you are in opposition with?

[jmkiser 0]

Mr. DNA, I'm trying to catch up in this thread. What statement did Balloon Guy initally make that you are in opposition with?

It's nothing too seriousYou've got your American Conservative vs. your worldly BritI think it's going to be more about whoever screws up first.

[Balloon guy 158]

It's nothing too seriousYou've got your American Conservative vs. your worldly BritI think it's going to be more about whoever screws up first.

Dang it, doesn't look good for me then.

[Mr. DNA 0]

Mr. DNA, I'm trying to catch up in this thread. What statement did Balloon Guy initally make that you are in opposition with?

The reason the title liberal now has a bad connontation is because the people who call themselves liberals are really socialist/communist.

and..

I live in one of the most populated gay areas in America. They live in the nicest homes, have nice cars and good jobs.I think the victim label is a bit of a stretch.Resistant to their desires for social change, yes.

It was the last bit of the second quote that riled the me the most. Balloon guy, master of subtlety and all around fair-minded fellow, didn't exactly cover himself in glory when he decided that I must be gay and had just broken up with my boyfriend- how else could I be apparently trying to defend gay people? I'm not gay and I'm not trying to defend anyone. I just want to know what "desires for social change" homosexuals have that Balloon guy is so adverse to.

[Balloon guy 158]

and..It was the last bit of the second quote that riled the me the most. Balloon guy, master of subtlety and all around fair-minded fellow, didn't exactly cover himself in glory when he decided that I must be gay and had just broken up with my boyfriend- how else could I be apparently trying to defend gay people? I'm not gay and I'm not trying to defend anyone. I just want to know what "desires for social change" homosexuals have that Balloon guy is so adverse to.

Dude, I thought you were a chick...my bad