What Do You Guys Think?

[DoinSublime 0]

"because you've bypassed the updaterprogram for whatever reason"I like how you insinuate that Im doing something to manipulate the game program; especially to my detriment. Besides being illogical; it's rather short-sighted and obtuse. Considering I did no such thing Im rather insulted.What you're telling me is that your faulty software is my problem and that my lost money is my problem? Interesting philosophy you have there.Thanks for not caring; clearly PokerStars is indifferent to whether your customers are having a good game play experience or not.Ill be sure to share this email with your top competitors like UltimateBet and BoDog. Maybe they have a different philosophy towards their customers than you.Im also sending a paper copy to your headquarters. Not only is your attitude unacceptable but so is your faulty software.-shane From: "PokerStars Support" <support@pokerstars.com> To: shanemallett@hotmail.com Subject: RE: problem in game Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:41:22 -0500 >Hello Shane, > >This problem occurs if you are running an out-of-date version of >PokerStars that does not support Five Card Draw. You'll appear to receive >only two cards, and you will have to stand pat on your hand. > >PokerStars should automatically update when you start the program. >However, if this doesn't happen (because you've bypassed the updater >program for whatever reason), you can try the following steps in order of >preference: > >1. Run PokerStarsUpdate.exe manually. This program is located in the >PokerStars folder, which by default can be found in C:\Program Files. >Double click the program to run it. > >or > >2. Download and install the new version of PokerStars from the following >website: > > http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/download > >Once you've upgraded to the latest version of PokerStars, you should be >able to connect again and enjoy the new games. > >Unfortunately, we're not able to offer refunds to players who have >bypassed the automatic updates and subsequently experience issues like >these. If you have any further problems, please let us know. > > >Regards, > >Alex S >PokerStars Support Team > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: shanemallett@hotmail.com >Sent: 2007/01/08 22:29:04 >To: support@pokerstars.com >Subject: problem in game > > > > > > > > > > > > >im trying to play a 5 card draw game but can only see 2 cards. > > > >can i get my my money refunded? i can provide screenshots... this is the >strangest thing i've ever seen. > > > >my name is "Warpig28"; please help! > > > > > >-shane

[Dave23 0]

Hmmm I think its going to get hot in here.

[rogerwilco 0]

That's a huge overreaction by your brother.Pokerstars regularly updates their software and users have to download the new versions to be able to play newly implemented games.There are two executable files in the Pokerstars directory, "PokerStars.exe" and "PokerStarsUpdate.exe", the first one just starts the software, the latter one updates it before starting. Tell your brother to use PokerStarsUpdate in the future and he'll never have the problem again.btw. every time I had contact with Pokerstars support, they were nothing but polite, friendly and honestly trying to be helpful.edit: Pokerstars didn't accuse him of cheating or anything like that, but I do agree to a certain extent, that they don't tell their customers clearly enough, that the software must be up to date to make use of all the features.

[bampote 0]

"because you've bypassed the updaterprogram for whatever reason"

I don't take this as an accusation, as your brother seems to. All the support person is saying is that the updater was bypassed somehow, and then he goes on to give a solution to the problem. That's far from being indifferent to the problem. Sure, he doesn't get his money back, which kinda sucks, but I can't imagine he lost more than a blind or two before he gave up on playing two-card five-card draw.

[dtblizz 0]

Shane is insane. Overreaction to the max.

[DoinSublime 0]

I'll pass that on, thx. I didn't know of the executable files myself, it always just updates on its own.

[rogerwilco 0]

I'll pass that on, thx. I didn't know of the executable files myself, it always just updates on its own.

Yeah, I had the same problem like your brother because my software never updated, then after I couldn't see any cards on the tables anymore, I thought something was wrong and realized, I should better use the PokerStarsUpdate file to start the program.

[DoinSublime 0]

Yeah, I had the same problem like your brother because my software never updated, then after I couldn't see any cards on the tables anymore, I thought something was wrong and realized, I should better use the PokerStarsUpdate file to start the program.

Heh, Roger roger.

[Eric Smith 0]

haha I was at that five card draw table with him. It was really funny he said he was gonna push if he picked up a pair. His screen name was Satan something. Thats so wierd.Does he post on these forums?

[psujohn 0]

If PokerStars software were really well written it:a) wouldn't let you sit at a 5 draw table without the appropriate client softwareb) probably wouldn't even let you on the site without updates softwarec) would include the updater in the main PokerStars.exe program rather than in a separate programI'm not sure how you bypass the updating in the first place. Perhaps he's going directly to the PokerStars.exe file rather than using a shortcut created by the install program. Still since Stars shows some questionable practices in their program it'd be nice of them to refund his loses. But if he lost more than a couple blinds he's an idiot and the e-mail was a bit of an overreaction.

[rogerwilco 0]

I'm not sure how you bypass the updating in the first place. Perhaps he's going directly to the PokerStars.exe file rather than using a shortcut created by the install program.

That is exactly what I had been doing until I realised that wasn't smart. And I agree with everything you say, there certainly is a mistake on Pokerstars' side here. I don't think they should feel obligated to refund any money though, Shane should have noticed something was wrong before losing any money.

[bossyrossy 0]

dude...how much did u lose before you realised you only got two cards?? I think you should be fined for playing on....tool alert!!

[DoinSublime 0]

dude...how much did u lose before you realised you only got two cards?? I think you should be fined for playing on....tool alert!!

It was a tournament cumquat, that is why he asked for a refund.

[tobytobey 0]

It was a tournament cumquat, that is why he asked for a refund.

For some reason I felt this thread needed a picture of cumquats.

[Chicago99 0]

I don't take this as an accusation, as your brother seems to. All the support person is saying is that the updater was bypassed somehow, and then he goes on to give a solution to the problem. That's far from being indifferent to the problem. Sure, he doesn't get his money back, which kinda sucks, but I can't imagine he lost more than a blind or two before he gave up on playing two-card five-card draw.

I disagree a little here. It did sound somewhat like an accusation. Support said "because YOU'VE bypassed the update function" and not "because the update function was bypassed."This sounds like a problem people might innocently come across. If you delete the shortcut and then decide to add it back, who's going to know to add pokerstarsupdate.exe as the shortcut and not pokerstars.exe. If it had been me, I also would have picked pokerstars.exe as my shortcut.I think they should have given him his money back. Support can take a long time to get back to you and he might not have figured out the response in time to fix the problem and play the tourney (especially if he is not computer savvy).Edit: To be clear, I don't believe the support guy meant his response to be an accusation (especially since they're always helpful and friendly to me). It was, however, not worded carefully and I can see how the guy was frustrated and felt like support was saying it was his fault.

[socalpoker_j 1]

Are you and "your brother Shane" one in the same?

[DoinSublime 0]

Are you and "your brother Shane" one in the same?

Haha, no. I'm DoinSublime in all names, shapes, and forms. Warpig28 is something only my brother the Marine would've picked.

[TB17 0]

Playing 5 card draw with 2 cards sounds like fun.

[NoSup4U 0]

Playing 5 card draw with 2 cards sounds like fun.

Watching you get coolered at final tables is fun.Mark

[TB17 0]

Watching you get coolered at final tables is fun.Mark

LOL, that joke is so old

[BWToth 0]

I pass on grass.

[DoinSublime 0]

haha we got a conclusion. figured you might get a kick out of this. better read bottom to top. >Hello Shane,>>Thank you for your email.>>As a one time good will gesture I have credited your account with $1.20,>please note we will unable to honour such a request again so please accept>this as a gift from your friends at PokerStars.>>Thank you very much for choosing PokerStars. We wish you all the best>in our games, and a pleasant playing experience.>>Best Regards,>>AlexM>PokerStars Support Team>>>----- Original Message ----->From:>Sent: 2007/01/10 08:50:00>To: support@pokerstars.com>Subject: RE: problem in game>> >> >> >> >> >Hi Douglas> >> >Thanks for your email.> >> >All I want is my $1.20 that I staked for my 5-card draw game.> >> >I'm not trying to hoodwink anybody or pull a fast one. I simply didnt know>that I had to start PokerStars using the PokerStarsUpdate executable; not>the PokerStars executable. I've used the same shortcut for over a year>(PokerStars.exe) and this is the first and only problem I've had because of>it.> >> >I dont think Im being unreasonable for asking for my $1.20 back. Any>chance you can help me out Douglas?> >> >-shane> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >From: "PokerStars Support" <support@pokerstars.com>> >To: > >Subject: RE: problem in game> >Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:06:11 -0500> >>Hello Shane,> >>> >>Your case was brought to my attention a while ago. I am at this point sure> >>that you understand which executable should be the default, which by the> >>way is the same included on the Desktop icon upon installation.> >>> >>We are aware that thru time there may be problems. Draw games introduced a> >>possible problem. We may force players to update their software. If you> >>click the Help, About you will see a client, server and protocol version.> >>If we change the number for the protocol an update is required. If anybody> >>bypasses the updater, the software will not even start. That hurts our> >>business way more than any other possible mismatch.> >>> >>We have about 100K players online at once, that makes up for about 1> >>million unique players visiting the site every day. If you ask me perhaps> >>something like a 0.05% of the players bypass the updater with the limited 5> >>years experience I have with PokerStars. It is considerable, and there may> >>be problems. We have chosen to deal with them.> >>> >>At this point you are aware that your links should point to> >>PokerStarsUpdate.exe. Now, the question is, what is the amount of the> >>damage? You mention you wish a refund, please let me know how many hands> >>you missed, when, dates; numbers, anything that may help me determine your> >>claim.> >>> >>Thank you for your cooperation.> >>> >>Regards,> >>> >>Douglas> >>PokerStars Support Team> >>Shift Supervisor> >>> >>----- Original Message -----> >>From> >>Sent: 2007/01/09 22:21:51> >>To: support@pokerstars.com> >>Subject: RE: problem in game> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >"I would lay huge odds the vast majority have no problem."> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >And by vast majority; you concede that fact that there's a small> >>percentage of people in my situation. Lets use a small number like 1%.> >> >> >> >Using your minuscule figure of 105,000 (obviously there's more online> >>players than that but Im just trying to prove my point) and take 1% of> >>105,000. If I've done my math right that means there is 1,050 people like> >>myself.> >> >> >> >Are you trying to tell me PokeStars considers that acceptable? There's> >>potentially thousands of online players like myself that could by not fault> >>of their own create a shortcut using PokerStars.exe that will cause bugs in> >>the software and that margin of error is acceptable to PokerStars? I dont> >>believe you.> >> >> >> >Yes; I want you to forward this to your tech team so they can read it.> >> >> >> >Yes; I want their feedback.> >> >> >> >Im glad you consider this case closed; unfortunately for you I dont. If> >>my emails go unanswered Ill simply do it the old fashioned way with pen and> >>paper.> >> >> >> >-shane> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >From: "PokerStars Support" <support@pokerstars.com>> >> >To: > >> >Subject: RE: problem in game> >> >Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 21:57:55 -0500> >> >>Hello Shane,> >> >>> >> >>Employing a single executable is, by no means, an absolute, universal law.> >> >>The progammers have their reasons, among them being the fact most users> >> >>will simply use the default shortcut.> >> >>> >> >>That you create your own shortcuts makes you an exception to the typical> >> >>user. Likewise were your difficulties with the stucture of our software> >> >>package. Please do not be misled into thinking "everyone is running the> >> >>stop sign". As I write this email, there are over 105,000 players at our> >> >>tables. I would lay huge odds the vast majority have no problem. The forum> >> >>(s) you had frequented are not indicative of our players' satisfaction (or> >> >>lack thereof).> >> >>> >> >>Neither you nor our programmers are at fault and we are not dismissing the> >> >>matter as such. Our concern is how can we be of assistance. If you want> >> >>our programmers to restructure our software package, I will gladly forward> >> >>your feedback. Many of our features are, in fact, the result of player> >> >>input. If you truly feel you had been victimized, to the extent that the> >> >>structure had caused you to lose hands, please send us log files ('Help'> >> >>menu) and hand histories ('Requests' menu). We will happy review the> >> >>matter. But if you simply to project your discontent onto our staff,> >> >>please do not be surprised to receive no response to further emails on the> >> >>subject -- we consider the issue closed.> >> >>> >> >>Thanks again for your patience.> >> >>> >> >>Regards,> >> >>> >> >>Alvin> >> >>PokerStars Support Team> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>----- Original Message -----> >> >>From:> >> >>Sent: 2007/01/09 21:05:51> >> >>To: support@pokerstars.com> >> >>Subject: RE: problem in game> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >That response doesnt explain anything so let me try again:> >> >> >> >> >> >Why are there 2 executables that start the program? Furthermore; why is> >> >>the CORRECT executable NOT named PokerStars.exe?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >I almost feel silly asking what is clearly a rhetorical question; we> >>both> >> >>know there should only be one.> >> >> >> >> >> >I always create my own shortcuts; so NATURALLY one would assume that> >> >>PokerStars.exe is the appropriate executable. Anyone one would.> >> >>That's what logical and intuitive people do.> >> >> >> >> >> >I dont go digging around properties looking for ambiguously named> >> >>executables; because that's simply illogical and unintuitive and a waste> >> >>of time. Any software developer would tell you that.> >> >> >> >> >> >Why is this an acceptable practice at PokerStars? Why is> >> >>PokerStars willingly setting their clients up for situations like mine> >> >>when they can pro-actively implement policies to stop it?> >> >> >> >> >> >Do you not feel this is negligence on PokerStars part? I do.> >> >> >> >> >> >Im not the only one that's fallen victim to this software flaw. I spoke> >> >>with a number of people on a couple poker forums today in the same> >> >>situation as me like myself. Is that what you told these other people as> >> >>well? PokerStars software flaw is the responsibility of the end-user?> >> >> >> >> >> >To use an anology: If one man runs a stop sign; it's probably the fault> >> >>of the man. If every man runs the same stop sign; there's probably> >> >>something wrong with the stop sign.> >> >> >> >> >> >Something's wrong with your stop sign PokerStars. I'd really, really> >> >>appreciate it if you'd stop trying to dismiss this as something wrong with> >> >>me.> >> >> >> >> >> >I guess for now all I can do is share my discontent with poker forums on> >> >>the internet and tell everyone I know> >> >>that PokerStars' software is flawed and they're doing nothing to resolve> >> >>it.> >> >> >> >> >> >-shane> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >From: "PokerStars Support" <support@pokerstars.com>> >> >> >To: > >> >> >Subject: RE: problem in game> >> >> >Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 19:06:03 -0500> >> >> >>Hello Shane,> >> >> >>> >> >> >>We appreciate your sentiment, so please bear with me for a moment as I> >> >> >>address your concerns.> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > 1) Why does PokerStars allow customers to sit at a 5-card draw> >>table> >> >> >> > without the appropriate client software?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > 2) Why am I even allowed to login to the game at all without the> >> >> >> > appropriate software?> >> >> >>> >> >> >>As previously explained, we do not support outdated or modified> >>software.> >> >> >>And please consider that bypassed updates are the exception, such that> >> >> >>glaring incompatibilities are quickly recognized and reported by our> >> >>users.> >> >> >>Players with outdated clients become aware from the get-go.> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > 3) Wouldn't it make sense for the PokerStars.exe executable to ALSO> >> >> >> > execute the PokerStarsUpdate program before allowing me to log on?> >> >> >>> >> >> >>The update program is actually run before the game client. If you> >>review> >> >>the> >> >> >>the 'Properties' of the default PokerStars shortcut, you will see that> >> >>the> >> >> >>target application is 'PokerStarsUpdate.exe'.> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > This is negligence at best and borderline criminal. I've deposited> >>my> >> >> >> > money in good faith and now have been ripped off. Not only that;> >>you> >> >>had> >> >> >> > the audacity to blame me for it.> >> >> >>> >> >> >>If you feel that you had somehow been defrauded, please use> >> >>the 'Requests'> >> >> >>menu to obtain your hand history. We can then review your play to> >> >>determine> >> >> >>whether any refunds are appropriate.> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > This goes far beyond the value of a dollar Alex. Im going to do> >>what> >> >>it> >> >> >> > takes to make sure PokerStars doesn't rip people off on the future.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I'm also taking my money to another site as soon as I get home from> >> >>work> >> >> >> > today. This is simply unacceptable.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Thanks for destroying my faith in PokerStars.> >> >> >>> >> >> >>I am sorry to hear of your decision. That said, I can assure you that> >>we> >> >>run> >> >> >>the best games on the internet and provide the best support in the> >> >>business.> >> >> >> Please know that I am also a player and, due to company policy,> >>cannot> >> >>play> >> >> >>at PokerStars. To be completely frank, I wish you luck in your contact> >> >>with> >> >> >>other cardrooms. I can honestly say our company is the most responsive> >> >>and> >> >> >>receptive to player concerns.> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > PS: "Apologise" is spelled: "Apologize".> >> >> >>> >> >> >>Not in the United Kingdom, where Alex is located.> >> >> >>> >> >> >>We wish you the best in the future.> >> >> >>> >> >> >>Regards,> >> >> >>> >> >> >>Alvin> >> >> >>PokerStars Support Team> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>----- Original Message -----> >> >> >>From:> >> >> >>Sent: 2007/01/09 10:58:08> >> >> >>To: support@pokerstars.com> >> >> >>Subject: RE: problem in game> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Alex> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >I wouldn't say it was harsh so much as it was ignorant. Unfairly> >> >>treated?> >> >> >>That's a nice euphemism for negligence.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Answer me this Alex:> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >1) Why does PokerStars allow customers to sit at a 5-card draw table> >> >> >>without the appropriate client software?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >2) Why am I even allowed to login to the game at all without the> >> >> >>appropriate software?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >3) Wouldn't it make sense for the PokerStars.exe executable to ALSO> >> >> >>execute the PokerStarsUpdate program before allowing me to log on?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >This is negligence at best and borderline criminal. I've deposited my> >> >>money> >> >> >>in good faith and now have been ripped off. Not only that; you had the> >> >> >>audacity to blame me for it.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >This goes far beyond the value of a dollar Alex. Im going to do what> >> >>it> >> >> >>takes to make sure PokerStars doesn't rip people off on the future.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >I'm also taking my money to another site as soon as I get home from> >> >>work> >> >> >>today. This is simply unacceptable.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Thanks for destroying my faith in PokerStars.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >PS: "Apologise" is spelled: "Apologize".> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >-shane> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >