What It Means To Be A Hypocrite

[brvheart 1,752]

He is simply refering to the people who will turn away from Christianity forever because of this incident. I don't think there will be as many as Hero's pastor thinks, but there will be a few. Honestly these people weren't of strong faith anyway (generally speaking) but some may have become stronger in the faith later, so it is a tragedy for those few.

Thanks for understanding what my pastor was saying, donkey. There's already a lot of people who hate Christians (all you gotta do is read this forum to realize that) and now because of Haggard there will be a lot more. This is why my pastor said he has just sent thousands to hell. And people have EVERYTHING to do with who goes to hell or not. It is ultimately the individuals decision, but as a Christian it is my job to tell people about Christ and to be a godly example of how a Christian should live. I'm sure I've sent a few people to hell because of the sins I have commited, not sent them directly of course, but my actions have turned them off to Christ. Maybe the more appropriate thing is to say that I've helped people on their way to hell, not sent them.

You guys couldn't be more wrong. God will draw people to himself regardless of what does or doesn't happen. I understand what you guys are saying but it isn't Biblical AT ALL. Please read Romans 9.ps. I do NOT want to turn this into a free will vs. predestination thread. So I will not answer questions about it. *looking at Crow face*

[Zealous Donkey 0]

You guys couldn't be more wrong. God will draw people to himself regardless of what does or doesn't happen. I understand what you guys are saying but it isn't Biblical AT ALL. Please read Romans 9.ps. I do NOT want to turn this into a free will vs. predestination thread. So I will not answer questions about it. *looking at Crow face*

Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORDJer 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away [on] the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace

[brvheart 1,752]

Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORDJer 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away [on] the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace

I'm assuming you know that Jesus was born after Jeremiah was written. Not that those verses don't apply to Haggard... but they certainly do not apply to the salvation of people living after Christ's birth. Although they are definately good guidelines for people like Haggard, James Baker, Jimmy Swaggart etc etc.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I'm assuming you know that Jesus was born after Jeremiah was written. Not that those verses don't apply to Haggard... but they certainly do not apply to the salvation of people living after Christ's birth. Although they are definately good guidelines for people like Haggard, James Baker, Jimmy Swaggart etc etc.

Yes, they were written for pastors. I do understand that noone is damned because of what Haggard did, but he did cause some sheep to scatter, and if they are lost, then I believe the bible says Haggard will be accountable.

[herokid7 0]

thanks for demonstrating why the christian plan of salvation is blatantly illogical and unfair - and obviously the concoction of primitive-thinking humans rather than a universe-creating just god.

I don't see how you got that at all. If anything, I see it as an awesome example of how much God loves me even though I am a complete screw-up.Paul wrote, "Even while we were still sinners, Christ loved us." I see nothing at all unfair about that. As for it for being illogical, of course it is! Our human brains are just too feeble to comprehend how much God loves us. I take a lot of comfort in that.

[herokid7 0]

You guys couldn't be more wrong. God will draw people to himself regardless of what does or doesn't happen. I understand what you guys are saying but it isn't Biblical AT ALL. Please read Romans 9.ps. I do NOT want to turn this into a free will vs. predestination thread. So I will not answer questions about it. *looking at Crow face*

I read Romans 9, brvheart. There is one verse in particular that I think you are confusing. Verse 16: "It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy." It's easy to read this verse and say , "Oh so God's gonna send to heaven or hell whoever he pleases." But that's not what the verse is saying. Basically, it's saying that by just being a good person won't get you into heaven. No matter how hard you try. You have to believe and have faith in God to get into heaven. But, God as left it up to us, believers, to tell people about him, to get them to believe in him. It's called the Great Comission. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 9:22, "To the weak I become weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some." If that's true, if it's possible for us to lead people to Christ, then it is very possible for to lead people to Satan.

[crowTrobot 2]

I don't see how you got that at all. If anything, I see it as an awesome example of how much God loves me even though I am a complete screw-up.

god apparently loves you a lot more than he loves the people haggard and you turned off to christianity and sent on the road to hell. lucky you.

As for it for being illogical, of course it is!

then why believe it?

[brvheart 1,752]

I read Romans 9, brvheart. There is one verse in particular that I think you are confusing. Verse 16: "It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy." It's easy to read this verse and say , "Oh so God's gonna send to heaven or hell whoever he pleases." But that's not what the verse is saying. Basically, it's saying that by just being a good person won't get you into heaven. No matter how hard you try. You have to believe and have faith in God to get into heaven. But, God as left it up to us, believers, to tell people about him, to get them to believe in him. It's called the Great Comission. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 9:22, "To the weak I become weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some." If that's true, if it's possible for us to lead people to Christ, then it is very possible for to lead people to Satan.

14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. 19You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

[crowTrobot 2]

Basically, it's saying that by just being a good person won't get you into heaven. No matter how hard you try. You have to believe and have faith in God to get into heaven.

god also apparently loves americans more than africans, asians etc., since he's sending a greater majority of those to hell. your god is no better than hitler.

[brvheart 1,752]

god also apparently loves americans more than africans, asians etc., since he's sending a greater majority of those to hell. your god is no better than hitler.

This is exactly the same as saying that God must love people in New York more than southern California because California is having all these brush fires. Just because the word spreads in one area, doesn't mean that he doesn't love the other areas. That's just where the fire is spreading.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

god also apparently loves americans more than africans, asians etc., since he's sending a greater majority of those to hell. your god is no better than hitler.

As a side note. Africa actually sends Christian missionairies to America because they (rightly) see us as a lost people.

[herokid7 0]

god apparently loves you a lot more than he loves the people haggard and you turned off to christianity and sent on the road to hell. lucky you.then why believe it?

Because I know that not everything in this world has to make sense for it to be real or good. God's love doesn't make sense to me, that's the beauty of it. If God's love made sense to me, I would be on God's level. I don't want a God that I'm on the same level with. Paul mentions this briefly in Colossians 2:8, "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." So there Paul is basically saying that some things that make sense to God won't make sense here because our minds depend on "basic principles of this world."Another scripture that relates this is 1 Corinthians 2: 14-16, "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgements about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgement: 'For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?' But we have the mind of Christ."

[crowTrobot 2]

Just because the word spreads in one area, doesn't mean that he doesn't love the other areas. That's just where the fire is spreading.

lucky you then, being born into a society where the "fire" is spreading, and not in some flame-retardant islamic or jewish culture.

[crowTrobot 2]

Because I know that not everything in this world has to make sense for it to be real

then since it isn't required to make sense, how do you know the nonsense you believe in is the correct nonsense? (since there are so many different types).

Paul mentions this briefly in Colossians 2:8, "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." So there Paul is basically saying that some things that make sense to God won't make sense here because our minds depend on "basic principles of this world."

in other words ignore logic and brainwash yourself. every cult says the same thing. yours is nothing special.

[Mike Matusow 0]

Norman Chad is a hypocrite

[Loismustdie 0]

Norman Chad is a hypocrite

Very good, Mike. It's almost a contribution.

FYPWow... this is a record. QFT again for Crow. (except, of course, the bolded area... since God will use it to his glory.) Your 'pastor' needs to read Romans 9 if he thinks that 'man' has anything to do with anyone going to heaven.

Both sides of the argument to a certain extent are right- the bible does indicate that those in a position of authority will be punished more severely in hell for there actions. So will those who harm children, those who believe and then turn there back on God, etc. It doesn't take away from the fact that each of us is responsible for his own soul, and anyone so weak that a weak man would influence him wasn't a strong christian to begin with.

Not to derail, but I don't think anyone who posts seriously here hates Christians.

I would disagree with that completely in this context- read the last 2 pages and the stuff Crow has said and you will see, clearly, that there is deep contempt for all things christian and God, at least God as defined by christianity, and it's borderline hate. The thing is this- if you created an atheism/agnostic area of this board I would never even bother. What for? I have nothing to add, understand what they are about and don't care- that's on them. Live and let live. Maybe that should be what happens. It would be fascinating- a board where all that would ever be posted is why everybody else is wrong but that's fine because there is no consequence that reaches past death but I am soooo mad anyway because these christians won't let me kill babies- not that I want to, but, you know, what if I needed to? Yeah, that would be fascinating. See why I wouldn't bother?

[MDXS 0]

I would disagree with that completely in this context- read the last 2 pages and the stuff Crow has said and you will see, clearly, that there is deep contempt for all things christian and God, at least God as defined by christianity, and it's borderline hate.

I don't want to speak for Crow, but I'd be suprised if he sees this as anything other than a debate....an intellectual exercise. What he's attacking are the ideas surrounding Christianity, but there's no hate towards Christians. What you're construing as hate is really just a distaste for bad logic and reason and the crap that follows from it.

[Loismustdie 0]

I don't want to speak for Crow, but I'd be suprised if he sees this as anything other than a debate....an intellectual exercise. What he's attacking are the ideas surrounding Christianity, but there's no hate towards Christians. What you're construing as hate is really just a distaste for bad logic and reason and the crap that follows from it.

That's why I said it's borderline. I wouldn't call it hate- it's close, though. As close minded and extreme as I may be at times, the same can be said for him. Here are some examples:god also apparently loves americans more than africans, asians etc., since he's sending a greater majority of those to hell. your god is no better than hitler. Lol- that's the only one I could find that was a little contemptuous, at least recently. After doing some quick research, I am probably getting Crow confused with Canada. Sorry, Crow. Nobody deserves that.

[Nacho Libre 0]

god apparently loves you a lot more than he loves the people haggard and you turned off to christianity and sent on the road to hell. lucky you.then why believe it?

God is a god of love senor, but he also very vengeful God- he no like when the people disrespect him by telling lies to his people. They will get there just recompence, senor. It is Nacho's wish that people will see that this man was no man of God, but a weak and sinful man who followed in the ways of sin and the flesh. Nacho is guilty of this, too. I am ashamed but I love the wrestling with the mens so much. I love how my stretchy pants fit so tight on my behind end and make Nacho feel like a real man. I know it is sin. I cannot help it.

[herokid7 0]

That's why I said it's borderline. I wouldn't call it hate- it's close, though. As close minded and extreme as I may be at times, the same can be said for him. Here are some examples:god also apparently loves americans more than africans, asians etc., since he's sending a greater majority of those to hell. your god is no better than hitler. Lol- that's the only one I could find that was a little contemptuous, at least recently. After doing some quick research, I am probably getting Crow confused with Canada. Sorry, Crow. Nobody deserves that.

Crow has also stated numerous times that he feels that religion(not just Christianity) is going to be the fall of humanity. It seems to me that's a good reason to hate Christians, if it were true. I think sin is the downfall of humanity and I hate it.

[chrisuk_sw 0]

I personally believe that we were created to pass on our genes and we evolved higher thinking and communication so as to better enable us to pass on our genes. Religion is a virus that has hijacking the communication mechanic to make copies of itself. I don't think you should hold the religious in contempt any more than you should hold the diseased in contempt. You should seek to comfort them and remove their malady.

[Nacho Libre 0]

Crow has also stated numerous times that he feels that religion(not just Christianity) is going to be the fall of humanity. It seems to me that's a good reason to hate Christians, if it were true. I think sin is the downfall of humanity and I hate it.

Well, he is right in this sense. God will come back and destroy the earth, so in a way he is completely correct- just not how he envisions it.

I personally believe that we were created to pass on our genes and we evolved higher thinking and communication so as to better enable us to pass on our genes. Religion is a virus that has hijacking the communication mechanic to make copies of itself. I don't think you should hold the religious in contempt any more than you should hold the diseased in contempt. You should seek to comfort them and remove their malady.

Yeah, the evidence of higher thinking is everywhere. Been to a mall lately?

[Flack_attack 0]

I personally believe that we were created to pass on our genes and we evolved higher thinking and communication so as to better enable us to pass on our genes. Religion is a virus that has hijacking the communication mechanic to make copies of itself. I don't think you should hold the religious in contempt any more than you should hold the diseased in contempt. You should seek to comfort them and remove their malady.

Eh? Are you implying purpose?

[chrisuk_sw 0]

Eh? Are you implying purpose?

Kind of, and yet, no. We came (!) into being by sexual reproduction and exist because our DNA is composed of genes that were able to make copies of themselves. When I said that "we were created to pass on our genes", its just that we are the result of this copying process, and if we have children, our genes will continue to exist. However the process itself has no goal, no purpose.

[keith crime 8]

wow that original post was maybe the dumbest i;ve ever read