Help A Brother

[Royal_Tour 0]

Hello all my brothers from other mothers.I come to you all for some advice.I have a good friend who is a very smart guy. He's the type of guy who doesnt seem to study or try but is naturally smart and understands things easily.He was there from day 1 of our home poker games, 1st casino trips etc.. and is a really good player. His only problem is, he hasnt advanced much.I can admitt he was a better player than me. Its amazing what practice and learning can do. I would definitely consider myself a much better player than him now.Ok, now that the short story is covered, I decided to bankroll him a bit. I opened an account for him on a crap site, and told him go nuts. He has been playing great, wining SnG's won a small MTT and is doin well in cash games.Only problem is he makes foolish mistakes, and has a lot of trouble valueing money. He has a crap minimum wage job, and for some reason, he'll throw around money online like its nothing. Its almost as if he is blinded to the fact that the little number on his screen is actually real.I really see this guy as a good player and could, if he tried, play poker to live at the moment, it would sure be more money than his crap job. Anyone have any tips? i mean, i review his hands histories and talk to him about it, but he's always just like "yaa, i know, that was brutal etc..." i've pointed him in this direction i gave him HOH2, but for some reason he'll sit there Up 4 buy-ins, and 2 in the morning, and yet he doesnt log off, doesnt "call it a night" and the will proceed to lose most if not all his money at that table on stupid hands.anyone have any advice?

[MasterLJ 0]

That's a tricky one. He sounds exactly like me. There was no magic to my discovering of "how to be a talented player but not lose your money on retarded hands," except for trial and error and continually screwing myself out of a b/r by making stupid plays. Starting my blog helped at the time (not needed as much now) because it introduced accountability to my decisions.

[Royal_Tour 0]

That's a tricky one. He sounds exactly like me. There was no magic to my discovering of "how to be a talented player but not lose your money on retarded hands," except for trial and error and continually screwing myself out of a b/r by making stupid plays. Starting my blog helped at the time (not needed as much now) because it introduced accountability to my decisions.

what made you want to blog your results? and do u eat sleep breath poker?I mean, i'm not sure how into poker my friend is. He's always up for a game, and loves playing online. except he doesnt take the extra steps like a lot of us forum vets doo.any idea what the best way to figure that out? i mean, if he's serious about the idea of playing full time instead of a crappy job, i'd spend more time and effort to helphim better his playing.

[Jordan 1]

Make him read "Ace on the River" by greenstein..if he really wants to take poker seriously, that's a great book to read and get a start on if he has little to no mental/emotional stability with the game.- Jordan

[7s7c 0]

If he doesn't love the game you really can't force him to no matter how much natural ability he has. My dad was an excellent stud player in his day but he played more recreationally than anything else and consequently was able to knowledge transfer at a reasonable clip but never took it to the next level and was merely satisfied at crushing the game at the Local Elks club. He probably could have made a living at cards but never really wanted to. I would leave him be.

[Royal_Tour 0]

If he doesn't love the game you really can't force him to no matter how much natural ability he has. My dad was an excellent stud player in his day but he played more recreationally than anything else and consequently was able to knowledge transfer at a reasonable clip but never took it to the next level and was merely satisfied at crushing the game at the Local Elks club. He probably could have made a living at cards but never really wanted to. I would leave him be.

i've thought about this, and i would totally agree if his life didnt consist of Smoking weed, eating, watching sports, and then Having to go work retail for future shop.soo.. you see why i kinda look at him like, Hey, this could really be a good thing for you. etc...

[MasterLJ 0]

what made you want to blog your results? and do u eat sleep breath poker?I mean, i'm not sure how into poker my friend is. He's always up for a game, and loves playing online. except he doesnt take the extra steps like a lot of us forum vets doo.any idea what the best way to figure that out? i mean, if he's serious about the idea of playing full time instead of a crappy job, i'd spend more time and effort to helphim better his playing.

I was eating, sleeping, drinking and pooping poker for the months where I began to turn things around. I go through phases. When I'm into it, I play 1-2k hands per day, when I'm not... I take months off and it generally only improves my game. I posted my blog results because I had a tilt problem where I'd get that burning fire in my stomach, and take my entire bankroll to one table and lose it all. I don't think you can force it on anyone. Open his eyes to win-rates and responsible playing and show him how he can absolutely crush his min-wage job. Hell, he could 4-table $25 NL tables and crush minimum wage even with a crappy winrate.

[aucu 3]

Lead him to water, thats all, can't push it.Yes a book like BG's could motivate him way more than HOH.

[Royal_Tour 0]

k, thanks for the tips., I have yet to read Ace on the river myself, so maybe i'l pick it up.cheers

[rogerwilco 0]

i've thought about this, and i would totally agree if his life didnt consist of Smoking weed, eating, watching sports, and then Having to go work retail for future shop.

No offense, but at least the job gives him some stability in his life. I'm not sure playing poker for a living would be the best choice for a person like that.

[7s7c 0]

I have also been in the presence of buddies while they are playing online and I'll look at a call or a play they make that makes no sense and think and/or say that they would never make that play in a live game and I think a lot of this has to do with a lack of concentration online, ie) watching TV, etc. Is his live game much better in terms of not making the one or two stupid costly plays? I've found when the actual money is in your hand some folks are more apt to plug holes all of sudden miraculously.

[Royal_Tour 0]

No offense, but at least the job gives him some stability in his life. I'm not sure playing poker for a living would be the best choice for a person like that.

I know, I see it taht way also, except he is a graduate with a degree in business economics, his dad is a Judge, and he has no girlfriend. It just seems like his daily routine with retail job and lack of real motivation is holding him back. Hes been my friend for about 18 years, and I would love to see the guy using his brain for once.

I have also been in the presence of buddies while they are playing online and I'll look at a call or a play they make that makes no sense and think and/or say that they would never make that play in a live game and I think a lot of this has to do with a lack of concentration online, ie) watching TV, etc. Is his live game much better in terms of not making the one or two stupid costly plays? I've found when the actual money is in your hand some folks are more apt to plug holes all of sudden miraculously.

Ya, this makes some sense, he always crushes his live games, although he doest go to the casino much, he crushes anyone that plays live with him, at any game.

[7s7c 0]

Take him to the casino and stake him in short but repetitive sessions. :icon_dance:PS: I had a friend like that in HS. Point guard on the varsity b-ball team but never practiced, played Jimi Hendrix leads like you wouldn't believe (never took lessons), aced every honors class w/o studying, etc...all he ever did was smoke pot and never really did anything after HS....kinda funny I guess. You always hear that line as a kid "you can do anything if you put your mind to it"...and how you know it doesn't apply like 99% of the time. Well it actually probably did apply to this kid which is probably why so many teachers tried to get through to him. Fat lot it did, meh as long as he's happy.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Take him to the casino and stake him in short but repetitive sessions.

haha, if he gets back on a win streak and doesnt piss it away , i'l withdraw some of the money from the account and do that.

[JadeTiger 0]

k, thanks for the tips., I have yet to read Ace on the river myself, so maybe i'l pick it up.cheers

Royal, The Ace On The River tip is really a good one. I fell in love with that book because it was the first of its kind and really makes playing winning poker real and not some system that is attainable if applied. The approach is truly revolutionary. That aside, I think the responsibility falls more so on you than your buddy. You see, you have decided to 'bankroll' him for whatever reason and it seems it is because you want him to improve but dont want him to risk his own money with the potential of going broke. While the idea is, on the surface, a good one, it is fatally flawed. The problem is exactly as you stated; he has no value for the money...because it's not his. I think if you are going to back this guy with hopes of his improvement, you need to set some rules. Some of those should include length of sessions played, a Daily Bankroll Acheivement Limit, and a Daily Bankroll Failure Limit. These will all teach discipline. Discipline is the number one character trait of successful poker players. It seems as if your friend is a bit on the lazy side, which we all can be at times, but when it comes to playing poker, you just cant be lazy AND successful. From a managment standpoint, and you ARE his manager, you should also have full access to his account with daily withdrawls to another account that you AND he will be tracking. The problem with most undisciplined players is running up a huge hit in a few hours and then see all that money in front of them that makes them think its ok to now sit down 2-3 levels above their skill set. Extracting money on a regular basis will keep him disciplined to play at a certain level and within certain means. Im not sure what your arrangment is exactly, but it would seem kosher to take a percentage of his winnings since you are backing him. If that is the case make sure you are VERY strict on your cut until you feel he is responsible enough to handle it himself. You are training a horse and it is a business investment. Think of it as such. Otherwise you are just throwing money away and your friend is no better off, in fact he is worse off having received the kind of charity that can only damage his game. I wish you luck in this endeavor and hope some of the suggestions I've mentioned will be of use. Good Luck!

[Royal_Tour 0]

Royal, The Ace On The River tip is really a good one. I fell in love with that book because it was the first of its kind and really makes playing winning poker real and not some system that is attainable if applied. The approach is truly revolutionary. That aside, I think the responsibility falls more so on you than your buddy. You see, you have decided to 'bankroll' him for whatever reason and it seems it is because you want him to improve but dont want him to risk his own money with the potential of going broke. While the idea is, on the surface, a good one, it is fatally flawed. The problem is exactly as you stated; he has no value for the money...because it's not his. I think if you are going to back this guy with hopes of his improvement, you need to set some rules. Some of those should include length of sessions played, a Daily Bankroll Acheivement Limit, and a Daily Bankroll Failure Limit. These will all teach discipline. Discipline is the number one character trait of successful poker players. It seems as if your friend is a bit on the lazy side, which we all can be at times, but when it comes to playing poker, you just cant be lazy AND successful. From a managment standpoint, and you ARE his manager, you should also have full access to his account with daily withdrawls to another account that you AND he will be tracking. The problem with most undisciplined players is running up a huge hit in a few hours and then see all that money in front of them that makes them think its ok to now sit down 2-3 levels above their skill set. Extracting money on a regular basis will keep him disciplined to play at a certain level and within certain means. Im not sure what your arrangment is exactly, but it would seem kosher to take a percentage of his winnings since you are backing him. If that is the case make sure you are VERY strict on your cut until you feel he is responsible enough to handle it himself. You are training a horse and it is a business investment. Think of it as such. Otherwise you are just throwing money away and your friend is no better off, in fact he is worse off having received the kind of charity that can only damage his game. I wish you luck in this endeavor and hope some of the suggestions I've mentioned will be of use. Good Luck!

You hit the nail on the head.I have 100% control of the account. I did set a goal, and i did tell him to start low, and build,. which he did but as soon as he hit the 400 mark. he sat at 1/2he actually won a bit, but I told him. look. dont jump levels like that until you can afford to lose. he agreed.I think you;re correct about the money though, he doesnt have anything to lose, and he has yet to appreciate the money in his account.Maybe i expect too much from him. I feel like a father i guess. He doesnt even have a computer, he uses his roommates.And i told him, once you build a solid BR we'll get you a new comp and a sweet set up. I dunno, i think i might just stop trying, ill let him do his thing, if he loses all the cash so be it, if he climbs up limits, then ok.

[JadeTiger 0]

You hit the nail on the head.I have 100% control of the account. I did set a goal, and i did tell him to start low, and build,. which he did but as soon as he hit the 400 mark. he sat at 1/2he actually won a bit, but I told him. look. dont jump levels like that until you can afford to lose. he agreed.I think you;re correct about the money though, he doesnt have anything to lose, and he has yet to appreciate the money in his account.Maybe i expect too much from him. I feel like a father i guess. He doesnt even have a computer, he uses his roommates.And i told him, once you build a solid BR we'll get you a new comp and a sweet set up. I dunno, i think i might just stop trying, ill let him do his thing, if he loses all the cash so be it, if he climbs up limits, then ok.

That seems to be the safest thing. Most people dont like being micromanaged unless they are really willing to learn and grow. If he is willing to be 'mentored' by you then the suggestions I gave should be very feasible, otherwise I don't believe its worth damaging a friendship over. He will figure it out one way or another. Most people have to go broke a few times before they realize what going broke means, and sometimes that is the best school teacher.

[Royal_Tour 0]

That seems to be the safest thing. Most people dont like being micromanaged unless they are really willing to learn and grow. If he is willing to be 'mentored' by you then the suggestions I gave should be very feasible, otherwise I don't believe its worth damaging a friendship over. He will figure it out one way or another. Most people have to go broke a few times before they realize what going broke means, and sometimes that is the best school teacher.

this is the 2nd time around for this. I staked him before, he did well, and then completely lost it, jumped on a big table and took a few beats cuz he was being too agressive.that was a year ago, so i said, we'll do it again, and here we are.anyways, thanks for the tips

[JadeTiger 0]

np

[LITTLEPOPPA 0]

this is the 2nd time around for this. I staked him before, he did well, and then completely lost it, jumped on a big table and took a few beats cuz he was being too agressive.that was a year ago, so i said, we'll do it again, and here we are.anyways, thanks for the tips

If he is looking at it as a sprint and not a marathon...U should boot him, no hard feelings as its business...If he is treating it like its monopoly money, boot him, no hard feelings as its business...Having a partner in poker with no discipline is just crazy and if nothing else in his life has motivated him to be disciplined and work hard, you definitely won't. The friendship will be better off if u cut it now instead of the anger it will create later.

[Sluggo 0]

Tell him to quit poker. Problem solved.

[Tiltinagain 973]

Hello all my brothers from other mothers.I come to you all for some advice.I have a good friend who is a very smart guy. He's the type of guy who doesnt seem to study or try but is naturally smart and understands things easily.He was there from day 1 of our home poker games, 1st casino trips etc.. and is a really good player. His only problem is, he hasnt advanced much.I can admitt he was a better player than me. Its amazing what practice and learning can do. I would definitely consider myself a much better player than him now.Ok, now that the short story is covered, I decided to bankroll him a bit. I opened an account for him on a crap site, and told him go nuts. He has been playing great, wining SnG's won a small MTT and is doin well in cash games.Only problem is he makes foolish mistakes, and has a lot of trouble valueing money. He has a crap minimum wage job, and for some reason, he'll throw around money online like its nothing. Its almost as if he is blinded to the fact that the little number on his screen is actually real.I really see this guy as a good player and could, if he tried, play poker to live at the moment, it would sure be more money than his crap job. Anyone have any tips? i mean, i review his hands histories and talk to him about it, but he's always just like "yaa, i know, that was brutal etc..." i've pointed him in this direction i gave him HOH2, but for some reason he'll sit there Up 4 buy-ins, and 2 in the morning, and yet he doesnt log off, doesnt "call it a night" and the will proceed to lose most if not all his money at that table on stupid hands.anyone have any advice?

Ever thought maybe he doesn't value the money because it's not HIS money he's playing with? Just a thought.

[Bling--Bling--75 0]

Even The Best Player's in The World have a Hard Time Beating Poker When I am Playing Online I Don't Care if I Lose

[Bling--Bling--75 0]

Royal, The Ace On The River tip is really a good one. I fell in love with that book because it was the first of its kind and really makes playing winning poker real and not some system that is attainable if applied. The approach is truly revolutionary. That aside, I think the responsibility falls more so on you than your buddy. You see, you have decided to 'bankroll' him for whatever reason and it seems it is because you want him to improve but dont want him to risk his own money with the potential of going broke. While the idea is, on the surface, a good one, it is fatally flawed. The problem is exactly as you stated; he has no value for the money...because it's not his. I think if you are going to back this guy with hopes of his improvement, you need to set some rules. Some of those should include length of sessions played, a Daily Bankroll Acheivement Limit, and a Daily Bankroll Failure Limit. These will all teach discipline. Discipline is the number one character trait of successful poker players. It seems as if your friend is a bit on the lazy side, which we all can be at times, but when it comes to playing poker, you just cant be lazy AND successful. From a managment standpoint, and you ARE his manager, you should also have full access to his account with daily withdrawls to another account that you AND he will be tracking. The problem with most undisciplined players is running up a huge hit in a few hours and then see all that money in front of them that makes them think its ok to now sit down 2-3 levels above their skill set. Extracting money on a regular basis will keep him disciplined to play at a certain level and within certain means. Im not sure what your arrangment is exactly, but it would seem kosher to take a percentage of his winnings since you are backing him. If that is the case make sure you are VERY strict on your cut until you feel he is responsible enough to handle it himself. You are training a horse and it is a business investment. Think of it as such. Otherwise you are just throwing money away and your friend is no better off, in fact he is worse off having received the kind of charity that can only damage his game. I wish you luck in this endeavor and hope some of the suggestions I've mentioned will be of use. Good Luck!

That Picture of Jessica Alba is Really Really Hot yo

Ever thought maybe he doesn't value the money because it's not HIS money he's playing with? Just a thought.

Any one Who has no Value for Money Has The Potential 2we Become a Phenomilnal Cardplayer

That Picture of Jessica Alba is Really Really Hot yoAny one Who has no Value for Money Has The Potential 2we Become a Phenomilnal Cardplayer

in most poker Circle's I am Considered 2weBe The Best Player That Has Ever Lived

That Picture of Jessica Alba is Really Really Hot yoAny one Who has no Value for Money Has The Potential 2we Become a Phenomilnal Cardplayerin most poker Circle's I am Considered 2weBe The Best Player That Has Ever Lived

& I'm Gay

That Picture of Jessica Alba is Really Really Hot yoAny one Who has no Value for Money Has The Potential 2we Become a Phenomilnal Cardplayerin most poker Circle's I am Considered 2weBe The Best Player That Has Ever Lived& I'm Gay

lol

[Bling--Bling--75 0]

That Picture of Jessica Alba is Really Really Hot yoAny one Who has no Value for Money Has The Potential 2we Become a Phenomilnal Cardplayerin most poker Circle's I am Considered 2weBe The Best Player That Has Ever Lived& I'm Gay

lol