Help With My Tourny Play Since I Dont Play Nlhe Much.

[randy 0]

Intro:Hey guys I just have some questions about my play in a NL hold’em tournament. The main reason I am posting this is that I don’t play NL hold’em very much at all (or very well), and have not played and tourney in a very long time. Because of my lack of experience I thought coming in here to ask about my play might teach me a few things.The situation is this:I got invited to play in the tournament through a guy I met at work. Is $50 buy in and there was about 30 guys. It took place on a Sunday and we had from sort of 2pm till an estimated 10pm to finish (our guess based off the blind structures.)I was really card dead throughout the entire day and cant think of any major hands I won. I took a few pots by getting lucky on my BB and some with some good bluffing or use of middle pairs in late position, and some draws. I will talk about my play from the final 8 and really want to know what you think of the hand I busted on. I will also try to explain what I was thinking at the time and of course the lead up hands.The skill level of the final 8 players was mixed, the two chip leaders where maniac luck boxes who were playing almost everything and hitting some massive hands along with sucking out a lot of the time. They were in my opinion the worst players at the table. 2 of the players seemed quite good players who I felt were very by the book. The others I sort of developed a read on later (as they were at other tables throughout the day)Hand 1: Maniac 1 hand just lost 2 all ins calling with bad cards and comes in from middle position with about 3 or 4x the BB. Maniac 2 calls from the next seat. I find myself in the BB with 2 Jacks, I am a little unsure what to do so I decide to raise enough to put maniac 1 all in (about 8-10x the BB and leaving me with a passable stack) and hope to push maniac 2 out. Maniac 1 calls Maniac 2 calls. Flop comes A K Q, and I decide I am eating shaft and that point and manage to check it down, show my jacks and lose to A-5 off from maniac 1.Hand 2:I raise under the gun with AKs. Everybody folds and I show.Hand 3:I have J 7 in the big blind and get a free look. The flop comes J Q 2. No flush draw. It gets checked all the way around.Turn comes 4. I check Maniac 2 raises everyone else folds and I call. I am pretty sure he hit the 4 and my jack is good.River comes a 5 or 6. Maniac 2 raises and I call, he shows K-4. I though about raising him back but I decide that because of the way he plays giving him extra options to bet is not the best idea on the planet.Hand 4:On the button I get Ac 5c and with 3 limpers including maniac 1 and 2 I decide to raise to 4x the BB. This bet is about as big as I can make without being pot committed, if I throw away at the flop I still have some time to pick up another hand. Maniac 1 and 2 call.Flop comes 2c 3c 5d. Maniac 1 raises (a very small and weak amount), Maniac 2 re-raises and I decide to push all in. The pot is big enough and I don’t feel with the amount I have left that I will find many chances to increase my stack better then this. Maniac 1 folds and maniac 2 calls. My first thought is: “anything but A-4” which is exactly what he shows.Turn comes Jc and I double up from maniac 2.Hand 5: little bit more shorthanded now and I get A-6 on the button and I decide to raise the 2 limpers about 3x the big. Folds around to maniac 2 who calls.Flop comes A 2 6. Maniac 2 makes a bigger then pot sized bet and I shove it all in. The only thing I am worried about here is a set of 2’s, and I don’t see that happening. Maniac 2 calls instantly (as it was not that much more) and shows A-4. I double up through maniac 2 again.Final Hand: (three handed at this point)I get A 4 on the button and I raise to 4x the big. Maniac 2 calls rest fold.Flop comes J 4 J. Maniac raises, I re-raise. I re-raised because he had been using what was now a massive chip lead to push everyone around and had won a really large % of the last few hands. I doubted he had anything so I decided to show him he is not the boss and push back.Maniac 2 thinks for a sec and then pushes me all in.This is where I am lost. There is no flush draw so my only real worry is an overpair or jack. So decided to go back though what I thought he could have. With any pocket pair above 6 I felt he would have raised pre flop. Also with hands AK to A9 I feel he would have probably raised. KQ-K10 would probably have gotten a raise as well with his style. With my pre flop raise I would like to think I would have pushed out any Q high rag combination. So I decide his possible hands are:55A4 to A9K4 to K-9.My only real worry is that he had something like QJ suited and decided to see a flop.I call and he shows me J 3 and I am spent. Made some money for 3rd but was quite angry with myself.So here are my questions:Did I play the lead up hands well?Was my reasoning with the final hand good?Ohh and before you get to upset I actually don’t like to raise (or play) with Ace rag as much as it looks, I do play limit holdem so I do really understand the problems with a hand like A 4. I chose to play it because it felt right for the situation.

[trystero 0]

1.It's hard to assess your play without knowing stack sizes and blinds. That said, the final hand should be a fold; it sounds as if you had enough chips to get away from it. Simply put the maniac used his image to get in your head. And you narrowed his range down too much - 3-handed a LAG chip leader is not calling your raise with only Q-J.2. Raising with Ax is fine as a steal and/or shorthanded.3. Hand 5, in what appears to be a low chip stack and two limpers (which is strange given SH play), I either push or fold preflop. But again, hard to say without knowing chip counts.

[throwemaway 0]

Without knowing chips stacks/blinds etc.......Hand 1: Looks like a push pf..Id rather go heads up w/ one opponent.Hand 4: Looks like a push/fold pf..Ace x usually doesn't hold up well post flop w/ multiple players who like to see flops..There is nothing I would hate more than playing a bloated pot w/ ace x..Even limping would be better than raising here I think, as your opponents have shown a willingness to limp/call w/ speculative holdings, and it appears as though you are just going to be massaging the potHand 5: Raise more pf or fold..How many handed are you? 3x isn't going to chase away limpers it appearsFinal hand: I think you can get away w/ folding this one, but once again, w/out stack sizes its tough to tell..After he comes back after you raise him, you have give him credit for something that beats you...A loose aggressive pplayer, and he seems very much like it, would probably call raises with a suited Jack 8,9,10, Q,etc..All of which your drawing dead to..I can let this one go and fight another day, but you went w/ your read..so hats off to that..Just happpens to be wrong sometimes...Tis life, gl

[Mercury69 3]

Calling a 4x BB raise with J3 is a huge donkey move, i don't care how big the maniac's stack was.

[trystero 0]

Calling a 4x BB raise with J3 is a huge donkey move, i don't care how big the maniac's stack was.

3-handed are you serious? J-3d against A-4s is just 62-37; plus he already posted either small or big. Of course the call's justified with a big enough stack.

[randy 0]

3-handed are you serious? J-3d against A-4s is just 62-37; plus he already posted either small or big. Of course the call's justified with a big enough stack.

yeh, i think you are right.This is just a result of me not playing tournys so really having little idea of how to play NL shorthanded. I think i was making my decisions on what i believed would be the correct choices for a fuller game.sorry i did not give stack sizes, i simply cannot remeber, it was the weekend before last.

[gobears 0]

Hand 4: I would have limped with A5s. Weak aces don't play well and with a bunch of limpers, just take a cheap look at the flop in position since you're on the button.Hand 5: I would limp or fold with a weak ace. With the manics at your table, I would see a flop in position again.Last Hand is tough as you're up against a maniac - without stack sizes, it's difficult to say what I would have done. However, based on your description of the other player, a call seems reasonable despite the result

[Mercury69 3]

3-handed are you serious? J-3d against A-4s is just 62-37; plus he already posted either small or big. Of course the call's justified with a big enough stack.

yeh, i think you are right.This is just a result of me not playing tournys so really having little idea of how to play NL shorthanded. I think i was making my decisions on what i believed would be the correct choices for a fuller game.sorry i did not give stack sizes, i simply cannot remeber, it was the weekend before last.

You gotta be kidding me? I truly hope to be in a tourney with you both at some point, esp short-handed. While your odds HU are correct, you reasoning seems to be that the maniac knows what you have. With any overcard to the J (AKQ), you are a 2 to 1 favorite. It was a stupid, lucky push. Maybe, MAYBE a call was justified, but a push? Maybe I'm too conservative?

[randy 0]

You gotta be kidding me? I truly hope to be in a tourney with you both at some point, esp short-handed. While your odds HU are correct, you reasoning seems to be that the maniac knows what you have. With any overcard to the J (AKQ), you are a 2 to 1 favorite. It was a stupid, lucky push. Maybe, MAYBE a call was justified, but a push? Maybe I'm too conservative?

I see your point too.Honestly if it was me with the Jack. i would fold. Its not the size of the raise compared to my stack, its the fact if i dont hit my jack i will have to fold on the flop, so im now chasing the handful of times i make a jack on the flop. So i dont see it as a good move.What i meant is that maybe i should not have discounted the possibility of that hand.i really need to think more about NL play and NL shorthanded play before i know what the right choice for me is in this situation. Hey, on the brightside atleast i got paid.The other thing that through me off was if you got re-raised with trip jacks. Would you push or smooth call.Honestly i thought that he would fold if he was bluffing, call if he had the nuts, and raise if he wanted to continue the bluff.and you should hope im in a tourney with you, NL tournys is where i have almost 0 experience.

[trystero 0]

You gotta be kidding me? I truly hope to be in a tourney with you both at some point, esp short-handed. While your odds HU are correct, you reasoning seems to be that the maniac knows what you have. With any overcard to the J (AKQ), you are a 2 to 1 favorite. It was a stupid, lucky push. Maybe, MAYBE a call was justified, but a push? Maybe I'm too conservative?

My reasoning was that his cards are likely live. And you will note that I said J-3_suited. How is the push 'stupid and lucky'? He pushed with the board J-J-4. You lay down J-3 here 3-handed? If so, you're right - we can't play together soon enough.

[Mercury69 3]

My reasoning was that his cards are likely live. And you will note that I said J-3_suited. How is the push 'stupid and lucky'? He pushed with the board J-J-4. You lay down J-3 here 3-handed? If so, you're right - we can't play together soon enough.

First, it was a misread on my part. I thought it said he'd pushed preflop. Second, preflop, unless I'm one of the blinds 3 handed, I'm laying that **** down, esp to a raise (even if I'm a blind). And, third, don't try to tell me that J3 suited is that much better than J3 off. Fourth, if you're so keen to play me, let's set a date for a HU match. I don't have tons of $ rolling around, so 10 or 20 should be fine, if that's not too beneath you.

[The Nuts 0]

Hand #1: I don't like seeing flops with JJ. With maniacs at the table, I'm willing to push preflop.Hand #4: Fold. Hate playing ace-rag in large pots. It only leads to trouble.Final Hand: I fold to the push unless you're pot committed (stack sizes and blinds would be more helpful)