Did I Play This Hand Right?

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

So there are only 3 jacks and 3 hearts in the deck now? Thats not including the 3 nine's that are in there too. Learn to count. 9 hearts, 3 jacks, 3 nines.... equals.......!!!

we are talking about 2 different things, you rube. There's no amount of money you can bet to chase off 2 overs and a flush draw. That's just not going to happen, nor should it. Over bets like the one he made is going to make me MORE likely to think my two overs in addition to my flush are live, not less. If he had something like Jacks or better, making an over bet like that is just dumb. So I would think that he has two overs or a small pocket pair, and the only hand that would really annoy me would be like 99 or AJ. Aotherwise, I would be thinking it's a coin flip, like it was, and call quick ( well, no, I never would have checked that hand to begin with, I would have bet out into him on the flop, again, not that huge over bet, because I think bets like that look real weak, but about 6-900, and be comminted to the pot if he raises me all in. ). What I am talking about is value betting other hands in that situation, when the flop comes 1033, with two hearts, of course herart draw is in. I'm talking about making something like KJ pay to suck out on me. If he folds, fine, if he calls, fine also. Making a retardo over bet means that worse hands can never call you, but better hands aren't going to fold either. and i have a news flash for you, j9 with a flush draw isn't a worse hand

[mhoward29 0]

we are talking about 2 different things, you rube. There's no amount of money you can bet to chase off 2 overs and a flush draw. That's just not going to happen, nor should it. Over bets like the one he made is going to make me MORE likely to think my two overs in addition to my flush are live, not less. If he had something like Jacks or better, making an over bet like that is just dumb. So I would think that he has two overs or a small pocket pair, and the only hand that would really annoy me would be like 99 or AJ. Aotherwise, I would be thinking it's a coin flip, like it was, and call quick ( well, no, I never would have checked that hand to begin with, I would have bet out into him on the flop, again, not that huge over bet, because I think bets like that look real weak, but about 6-900, and be comminted to the pot if he raises me all in. ). What I am talking about is value betting other hands in that situation, when the flop comes 1033, with two hearts, of course herart draw is in. I'm talking about making something like KJ pay to suck out on me. If he folds, fine, if he calls, fine also. Making a retardo over bet means that worse hands can never call you, but better hands aren't going to fold either. and i have a news flash for you, j9 with a flush draw isn't a worse hand

No, J9 isnt a worse hand if you count the 9 as an out. But you cant count it as an out. Therefore, J9 is a worse hand when you dont know what the other person has and you are counting possible outs. Im just saying in my experience heads up in a tourney, be it in a home game or casino, the 66 did nothing wrong. To be honest, I really woundnt want a call if I had 66 there, but Im not about to let that 900 in the pot go. And in case you want to start arguing about what my experience is, I have been in a heads up situation about 10 times in casino tourney's and too many to count home games. And yes, I am in the positive $ in tourney's.

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

No, J9 isnt a worse hand if you count the 9 as an out. But you cant count it as an out. Therefore, J9 is a worse hand when you dont know what the other person has and you are counting possible outs. Im just saying in my experience heads up in a tourney, be it in a home game or casino, the 66 did nothing wrong. To be honest, I really woundnt want a call if I had 66 there, but Im not about to let that 900 in the pot go. And in case you want to start arguing about what my experience is, I have been in a heads up situation about 10 times in casino tourney's and too many to count home games. And yes, I am in the positive $ in tourney's.

First of all, I never agrued about your "heads up tourney" experience, nor do I give a sht. I can make up experience just as much as the next guy online, and all I give a crap about is the logic of your arguments, and if you say making large ovver bets is smart poker, I call bullsht. As for "not knowing if the nine is live, well, you don't know the jack is live either, or the flush for that matter, you just make your best guess, and the most likely hand he has doesn't involve a ten, since he was the preflop raiser, but is most likely a pocket pair ( which you have two overs to half of) or two over cards ( which you have one/ two live cards to)But lets say he does have the ten, and your nine is dead.. you still have 12 outs, right? that's 24 outs into 47.5. We'll subtract two outs for full house redraws, and that's 22 outs in 47.5. Your equity is still 46%, and the pot is still offering you 62% so your still making a mistake to fold one over and a flush draw, even to that retardo over bet. My point is the flush draw isn't something you have to worry about, you're going to get your money against him reguardless. You should be worried about backing AJ offsuit to pay the wrong price for you to call.

[mhoward29 0]

As for "not knowing if the nine is live, well, you don't know the jack is live either, or the flush for that matter, you just make your best guess, and the most likely hand he has doesn't involve a ten, since he was the preflop raiser, but is most likely a pocket pair ( which you have two overs to half of) or two over cards ( which you have one/ two live cards to)

Why wouldnt his hand have a 10 in it because he was the preflop raiser... THIS IS HEADS UP POKER!!!!!!!!! He could raise with any ace... including A3 and it wouldnt be a bad raise! He could raise with A10, K10 or even Q10 and it wouldnt be a bad raise! But Im not going to get into the "what if's".All Im saying is that the 66's were ahead, there was money in the pot and you really didnt want anymore cards coming with that hand, personally and situationally speaking.

[jasonmason 0]

What if I had a higher flush draw? What if I had pocket 10s and he was drawing dead?I still think it is a bad call, and I think the push is essential there to try to pick up the pot without any more cards being dealt.

[trystero 0]

What if I had a higher flush draw? What if I had pocket 10s and he was drawing dead?I still think it is a bad call, and I think the push is essential there to try to pick up the pot without any more cards being dealt.

Huh? Yeah, what if you had a higher flush draw, and what if he had pocket 3s. Then you've put your money in when drawing dead.He's not playing scared poker. He's getting his money in with a good draw. Kudos to him, though I would've pushed on the flop.

[myenemy 0]

First of all, I never agrued about your "heads up tourney" experience, nor do I give a sht. I can make up experience just as much as the next guy online, and all I give a crap about is the logic of your arguments, and if you say making large ovver bets is smart poker, I call bullsht. As for "not knowing if the nine is live, well, you don't know the jack is live either, or the flush for that matter, you just make your best guess, and the most likely hand he has doesn't involve a ten, since he was the preflop raiser, but is most likely a pocket pair ( which you have two overs to half of) or two over cards ( which you have one/ two live cards to)But lets say he does have the ten, and your nine is dead.. you still have 12 outs, right? that's 24 outs into 47.5. We'll subtract two outs for full house redraws, and that's 22 outs in 47.5. Your equity is still 46%, and the pot is still offering you 62% so your still making a mistake to fold one over and a flush draw, even to that retardo over bet. My point is the flush draw isn't something you have to worry about, you're going to get your money against him reguardless. You should be worried about backing AJ offsuit to pay the wrong price for you to call.

A lot of what youre saying is valid but there is one oversight. Youre talking about betting your hand for value in general when this type of situation arises, bene. But unfortunately a value bet when M's are a bit higher leaves you open to being outplayed. You say its an easy call when the 900 raise comes along and it is, but what about when the villain has 9000 more? You value bet 600 and he makes it 2800. So you cant partly detach yourself from the situation at hand. Value bets are generally good, there is no danger of being outplayed in this hand since there is no leverage room, but you can end up opening a lane for an opponent when a bigger bet might've taken the play away to begin with.

[tskillz187 0]

Guys,Just finished a relatively high-stakes tournament, it was me against a good friend, and we're having a typical arguement about who misplayed the final hand. We're both nearly even in chips with about 2,000 each. Blinds are 100-200. It went down like this:Player A: 9h JhPlayer B: 6h 6sPlayer B is button (SB = 100), raises to 450. Player A calls.Flop comes 10h 3h 3sPlayer A checksPlayer B pushes all in for about 1,500 morePlayer A callsNot going to tell how this played out just yet, or which player I was. . Just hoping for some feedback, what do you guys think?

J9 played this hand wrong on every street. He should fold or push PF. He should almost certainly push on the flop, or make a value bet as BigD is arguing throughout the entire topic. I don't mind the overbet by 66 here on the flop and tend to disagree with the value bet line. I think that a player with two overs is just as likely to call your desperate looking all in on the flop as he would be to wrongly call 600, or to checkraise all in with the same hand. Might as well make him draw at his worst by not letting him think he can make a move, if he wants to call with overs to the board then draw out to the maximum. Every bet you make should have a purpose, will any hand that is better than yours fold if you push? No. If you value bet? No. Will you be able to fold to a stronger hand if you value bet and he comes over the top? No.The difference in bet size matters so little and is really speculative, not as cut and dried as Big is trying to make it sound. I think you are more likely to get called by overs if you push all in than if you bet 600 and I would like to get called by overs. I would push all in being confident that my chips were getting in regardless and that I have protected my hand as best I could while also allowing my opponent to make a big mistake.

[throwemaway 0]

J9 played this hand wrong on every street. He should fold or push PF. He should almost certainly push on the flop, or make a value bet as BigD is arguing throughout the entire topic. I don't mind the overbet by 66 here on the flop and tend to disagree with the value bet line. I think that a player with two overs is just as likely to call your desperate looking all in on the flop as he would be to wrongly call 600, or to checkraise all in with the same hand. Might as well make him draw at his worst by not letting him think he can make a move, if he wants to call with overs to the board then draw out to the maximum. Every bet you make should have a purpose, will any hand that is better than yours fold if you push? No. If you value bet? No. Will you be able to fold to a stronger hand if you value bet and he comes over the top? No.The difference in bet size matters so little and is really speculative, not as cut and dried as Big is trying to make it sound. I think you are more likely to get called by overs if you push all in than if you bet 600 and I would like to get called by overs. I would push all in being confident that my chips were getting in regardless and that I have protected my hand as best I could while also allowing my opponent to make a big mistake.

Well said..Blinds are way too high relative to stacks to be calling raises with J9, or any hand for that matter unles your planning on trapping..There really shouldnt be any calling of raises at all at this point, and if you do with a mediocre hand like J9, DONT CHECK THE FLOP..Give yourself a chance to win the pot right there and either bet or push

[Dhall901 0]

Guys,Just finished a relatively high-stakes tournament, it was me against a good friend, and we're having a typical arguement about who misplayed the final hand. We're both nearly even in chips with about 2,000 each. Blinds are 100-200. It went down like this:Player A: 9h JhPlayer B: 6h 6sPlayer B is button (SB = 100), raises to 450. Player A calls.Flop comes 10h 3h 3sPlayer A checksPlayer B pushes all in for about 1,500 morePlayer A callsNot going to tell how this played out just yet, or which player I was. . Just hoping for some feedback, what do you guys think?

As it stands the 66 is ahead, so getting all the chips in the middle for the game is correct. Now if the J9 is sure he has live cards (3 jacks, 3 nines) and the hearts for the win, he's got 15 wins, not counting running straight cards. 900 preflop, 1500 push, he calls 1500 for 2400 getting 1.6 on his money. The money odds are a no go for me. As far as the "mathematically correct" play, J9 has made an error.

[throwemaway 0]

As it stands the 66 is ahead, so getting all the chips in the middle for the game is correct. Now if the J9 is sure he has live cards (3 jacks, 3 nines) and the hearts for the win, he's got 15 wins, not counting running straight cards. 900 preflop, 1500 push, he calls 1500 for 2400 getting 1.6 on his money. The money odds are a no go for me. As far as the "mathematically correct" play, J9 has made an error.

J9 makes the errors all around..He never gives himself a shot to win the pot w/out a showdown, takes a passive line the whole hand with a low M situation..Its butchered pf and on the flop by him, no question