Recent Circuit Show With Boyd

[crimethink_ 0]

So you advocate calling off 10,000 in chips against an all in push from a guy you know has Q-J with 5-5, first hand of the ME? Just clarifying.

Not very likely to happen , but yes.

[Loismustdie 0]

Not very likely to happen , but yes.

Good luck lasting past the 4th level, ever. Seriously.

[crimethink_ 0]

Good luck lasting past the 4th level, ever. Seriously.

lmaoI guess I just enjoy making the correct play...care to explain what edge you would want in that situation, and why? Also, if you could explain why Matros is wrong here, that would be great. Because I'm always looking to learn, you know.

[Loismustdie 0]

lmaoI guess I just enjoy making the correct play...care to explain what edge you would want in that situation, and why? Also, if you could explain why Matros is wrong here, that would be great. Because I'm always looking to learn, you know.

Learn to fold some hands- some hands you want to call with, some you want to raise with- some you really, really want to call with but it's best to fold, and some you really should call but all things considered, you should fold. Be the aggresor if you can, try very hard to not be the guy calling off all of your chips with, say, preflop 5-5 vs. I don't give a **** what it is. If that's what his article is advocating, read something else. Or, hell, call off all your chips with **** I don't care. Good luck.

[crimethink_ 0]

Learn to fold some hands- some hands you want to call with, some you want to raise with- some you really, really want to call with but it's best to fold, and some you really should call but all things considered, you should fold. Be the aggresor if you can, try very hard to not be the guy calling off all of your chips with, say, preflop 5-5 vs. I don't give a **** what it is. If that's what his article is advocating, read something else. Or, hell, call off all your chips with **** I don't care. Good luck.

Look, I'm well aware that it's much better to be pushing than calling, but if you know you're ahead then you need to make the call, unless the payout structure dictates a fold. And you could, you know, read the article. You might learn something.

[Loismustdie 0]

That last response was flippant- here is the serious one. Trust me, it never feels good to tell yourself that you were a slight preflop favorite when the flop comes J-3-6, or Q-3-6, or J-2-4,or Q-2-4.... should I go on? It doesn't take much to beat 5-5, therefore, in the ME, 1st hand, it's a fold preflop against an all in raiser everytime. If the guy smiled and and showed me 3-3 I wouldn't even give a ****. Why? I folded 5-5, and will do it again in a heartbeat, because, among the many rules that I live by one unbreakable one is when I do play in the ME, I will fold 5-5 vs. an all in raise on the first hand preflop, period.

[crimethink_ 0]

It doesn't take much to beat 5-5, therefore, in the ME, 1st hand, it's a fold preflop against an all in raiser everytime.

Unless the raiser shows you a hand you have beat, in which case you should call. Of course, that's assuming you don't have some strange aversion to money.

[Loismustdie 0]

Look, I'm well aware that it's much better to be pushing than calling, but if you know you're ahead then you need to make the call, unless the payout structure dictates a fold. And you could, you know, read the article. You might learn something.

Without even reading the article I can tell you that no way in hell is 5-5 good enough to go out on. Let's say this maniac actually exists, why do I need to take him out now, on this hand? I don't- he will offer me plenty of opportunity, and he will be gone soon, and then we can all get back to actual poker.

Unless the raiser shows you a hand you have beat, in which case you should call. Of course, that's assuming you don't have some strange aversion to money.

No, money is good, but so is getting into the 4th level without calling off all of my chips with 5-5. Something tells me you are actually somebody else screwing around.

[crimethink_ 0]

Without even reading the article I can tell you that no way in hell is 5-5 good enough to go out on. Let's say this maniac actually exists, why do I need to take him out now, on this hand? I don't- he will offer me plenty of opportunity, and he will be gone soon, and then we can all get back to actual poker.

Really, you should read the article. Then maybe you can explain to me where the flaw in his argument is, because I don't see one. And the reason you need to call his push now is because doing so makes you money in the long run.

No, money is good, but so is getting into the 4th level without calling off all of my chips with 5-5. Something tells me you are actually somebody else screwing around.

And more often than not you will make it to the 4th level when you make this call. Furthermore, you will make it to the 4th level with twice as many chips as you would have had you folded.

[irishguy 14]

I don't think this is a big enough edge (3/2 not 2/1) for me to risk the entire tourney on. The equity you stand to gain at this point is really insignificant versus your risk. Now if this was day two and same situation with 200,000 in chips vs sb's 200,000 its an insta-call. I just see it as unnesessary risk on the first hand. I get the math says its right but if in the same situation first hand of the ME and you have 76 suited and see three players all in before you with AK, KQ, QJ do you make the call because you are getting the correct pot odds?

[crimethink_ 0]

I get the math says its right but if in the same situation first hand of the ME and you have 76 suited and see three players all in before you with AK, KQ, QJ do you make the call because the you are getting the correct pot odds?

Yes.

[SigmaX43 0]

Really does depend on how good you think you are. For me, I'd probably call because I'm not that confident that i can outplay most of the opponents in the ME, so i'll take any edge I can get. BUT for pros I can see why they would fold. They're pretty confident that they can outplay most of the players there so they see no need to risk ALL their chips on a 60/40 edge especially on the first hand of the tournament. The blinds are 25/50, they have way more than enough to play with a chip stack of 9950.

[Loismustdie 0]

Really, you should read the article. Then maybe you can explain to me where the flaw in his argument is, because I don't see one. And the reason you need to call his push now is because doing so makes you money in the long run.And more often than not you will make it to the 4th level when you make this call. Furthermore, you will make it to the 4th level with twice as many chips as you would have had you folded.

Conceivably, this call is possible if, say, I play in a 100 ME style events per year, and in each one some ****ing moron shows me Q-J when he pushes all in on my BB and I have A-K, I could make this call and be O.K. 60% of the time. With 5-5 it would drop about 10 percent, more if his Q-J is suited. But, that is not the case. These events are limited. I CAN fold- I have nothing invested.

[sdnuol 0]

did anyone notice dutch said he doesnt even have a 100k br even after winning that braclet?

no one finds it the list bit interesting he doesnt have 100k br?

[Loismustdie 0]

Yes.

No.

no one finds it the list bit interesting he doesnt have 100k br?

No more interesting than the fact that I don't.

[crimethink_ 0]

Conceivably, this call is possible if, say, I play in a 100 ME style events per year, and in each one some ****ing moron shows me Q-J when he pushes all in on my BB and I have A-K, I could make this call and be O.K. 60% of the time. With 5-5 it would drop about 10 percent, more if his Q-J is suited. But, that is not the case. These events are limited. I CAN fold- I have nothing invested.

Wow. So you're saying that if you played a great deal of these events, this would be a call, but because this is a once-a-year event, you would fold...if you don't understand why that's wrong, then I guess I'm just beating my head against a wall arguing with you.

[irishguy 14]

Yes.

in a cash game this is an easy call but regardless of the pot odds its unneeded risk so early in the ME. Maybe I make calls like that after I've played the ME for a few years.

[sdnuol 0]

No. No more interesting than the fact that I don't.

does that mean you think its interesting?i get confused easily after dark

[crimethink_ 0]

in a cash game this is an easy call but regardless of the pot odds its unneeded risk so early in the ME. Maybe I make calls like that after I've played the ME for a few years.

[Loismustdie 0]

Wow. So you're saying that if you played a great deal of these events, this would be a call, but because this is a once-a-year event, you would fold...if you don't understand why that's wrong, then I guess I'm just beating my head against a wall arguing with you.

The very fact that you can't understand why one would fold 5-5 against an all in raise first hand in the ME shows me you have no clue how to go deep in multi table tourneys. Little clue... pssstt...hey, you.....over here...keep this on the DL, will you?(Very quietly.) Sometimes you should fold.

[crimethink_ 0]

The very fact that you can't understand why one would fold 5-5 against an all in raise first hand in the ME shows me you have no clue how to go deep in multi table tourneys. Little clue... pssstt...hey, you.....over here...keep this on the DL, will you?(Very quietly.) Sometimes you should fold.

Here's how you go deep in MTTs: you take every edge you can get, and you accumulate a lot of chips.

[bascomeb 0]

55 vs QJ is a little extreme, but I would call QQ vs AK

[crimethink_ 0]

Really does depend on how good you think you are. For me, I'd probably call because I'm not that confident that i can outplay most of the opponents in the ME, so i'll take any edge I can get. BUT for pros I can see why they would fold. They're pretty confident that they can outplay most of the players there so they see no need to risk ALL their chips on a 60/40 edge especially on the first hand of the tournament. The blinds are 25/50, they have way more than enough to play with a chip stack of 9950.

Just in case anyone finds this interesting or enlightening:"if you knowingly pass up a 60:40 opportunity, you're not a top player." -Greg Raymer"I've said I'll take ANY edge (or even ANY COIN FLIP) early, and that NOBODY is good enough to intentionally refuse a 60/40 edge early. Repeatedly applying a 60/40 edge would make you one of the top players intournament poker." -Paul PhillipsFrom this thread.

They wouldn't.

[irishguy 14]

Its nice that you think you are right...and that no arguement can be made for the other side. Its very similar to the "never fold kings preflop attitude". But I don't think there are any absolutes in poker its fine that you do and I get your point, I understand the math very well. Its just a personal opinion that I wouldn't risk my entire stack in the very first hand in either one of those situations.

[crimethink_ 0]

Its nice that you think you are right...and that no arguement can be made for the other side. Its very similar to the "never fold kings preflop attitude". But I don't think there are any absolutes in poker its fine that you do and I get your point, I understand the math very well. Its just a personal opinion that I wouldn't risk my entire stack in the very first hand in either one of those situations.

The was to your statement that you wouldn't do it now, but maybe after you had played the ME a few times, which doesn't make any sense.