Maxing Value From Top Set?

[cdipierr 0]

This came up in a live tourney I played yesterday at the Venentian. Still split 2nd/3rd ultimately, but was curious how to make more value from this hand.Blind were I 100/200. I have about 8000 in chips. The two villians have less than I have, but not by much.Dealt 88 in MP. Two limps ahead of me, so I limp as well. Folded to the blinds who come along.Flop: 835 raindowBlinds check. UTG + 1 bets 600. UTG + 2 thinks for a while and calls. Reads on UTG+1 is that he's a fairly tight solid player. UTG + 2 had been taking pots on the flop when no one showed interest, calling is a little out of his norm. My table image is probably failry conservative, mainly due to lack of cards, but I am at double the initial buyin.Hero?I had planned to call if it was just UTG+1, but when UTG+2 called as well, I bumped it to 2500 to try to either get a reraise or call from 1, but not both.As it happens, blinds folded, and then both villians folded as well after some thought.Curious as to how you'd all play it.

[AcesOnFire 0]

I'd play it the same way personally.

[Actuary 3]

I'd raise to 1800.fwiw, I made that decision before finishing post, results can mess with people.

[timwakefield 68]

I'd raise to 1800.

I agree, maybe even less (like 1500), but a raise is certainly in order here. You don't want to let your opponents draw to a straight for cheap, and hopefully one of them has an overpair and jams it.

[GrinderMJ 0]

I actually smooth call this, and bust out a huge check raise on turn. What hands do we fear here? I think you have to go for max value. Depending on villians, they might not even be the type who call in MP with 76 or 46. In my opinion you are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY ahead here, and shouldn't be afraid to give a free card

[Actuary 3]

gut shots can call profitably for one thing.2200 in the pot, taking it now is not bad.We may get re-raised Turn card may be a scare card killing our action... I see that happen a lot more than I anticipated.

[Znakeyez 0]

A call maybe? Would a call be wrong? Best hand he could have would be a lower set.

[GrinderMJ 0]

gut shots can call profitably for one thing.2200 in the pot, taking it now is not bad.We may get re-raised Turn card may be a scare card killing our action... I see that happen a lot more than I anticipated.

In my opinion, this hand comes down to how good the hero is. If he isn't that strong at playing flops, then he shoudl raise. If he can read people and situations, then this is a clear call to try to win a gigantic pot.EDIT: I also like a call because it opens up a potential squeeze from one of the blinds if they are short.

[Actuary 3]

In my opinion, this hand comes down to how good the hero is. If he isn't that strong at playing flops, then he shoudl raise. If he can read people and situations, then this is a clear call to try to win a gigantic pot.EDIT: I also like a call because it opens up a potential squeeze from one of the blinds if they are short.

so you can lay this down on the turn if a 7 falls ?We make more by buildng the pot now.

[GrinderMJ 0]

so you can lay this down on the turn if a 7 falls ?We make more by buildng the pot now.

No, that's not what I'm saying, really. What I meant more was, competent heros should have a read on the villains in this hand. He should know in this spot, what are the two limpers likely range, have they been limping a lot, have they shown down suited connectors that they limped. Are 76, and 46 in their limping range from early position. If he doesn't feel confident in the hand, and his read on the villains then he should raise to get info, but in reality he should already have a pretty good grasp on what the villains in this hand are doing.

[Actuary 3]

unless he playsd regularly with them, there aren't enough hands shown down to get a range like that, are there?seems pretty early in tourney; which my read says, lots of donks.I'll let this one go.

[RDog 0]

I actually smooth call this, and bust out a huge check raise on turn. What hands do we fear here? I think you have to go for max value. Depending on villians, they might not even be the type who call in MP with 76 or 46. In my opinion you are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY ahead here, and shouldn't be afraid to give a free card

Hmm....tough one. I would definitely play it this way if the blinds weren't in the hand without having acted yet. I just think re-raising about the size actuary says probably isolates those that we still want in the hand. Just calling gives the blinds the odds to draw. The board isn't currently scary but what if you call, the blinds call and then a 9, 7, 6, 4, 2, A come on the turn? You have now put yourself in a tough situation if someone starts playing back at you on your check raise on the turn. That is a lot of cards that suddenly make it a scary board with possibly 4 others in the hand still. I want UTG+1 and UTG+2 in the hand but that is it. It is much easier to put them on a range. Having said all of that, there is no doubt I probably smooth call as Grinder suggested 10-20% of the time hoping to win a monster.

[Actuary 3]

to the extent one can argue a smooth call is the better play here; I'd conjecture that it's only because this is an MTT and not an STT. Where in STT"s you would be glad to take the pot and MTT a big stack can be used to bully; which is more necessary in MTT's ???

[timwakefield 68]

to the extent one can argue a smooth call is the better play here; I'd conjecture that it's only because this is an MTT and not an STT. Where in STT"s you would be glad to take the pot and MTT a big stack can be used to bully; which is more necessary in MTT's ???

No because I think a smallish raise will work to build the pot, not win the pot. You want somebody (probably original bettor) to push with a hand like TT, or somebody to push with a draw, where on a lousy turn you won't get as much action. Grinder has a good point though about inducing a squeeze play.

[RDog 0]

Grinder has a good point though about inducing a squeeze play.

I would agree with this if I thought more than 15-20% of those playing poker had any idea what the squeeze play is. My friends play quite often and I bet you if I mentioned the squeeze play they would think I was talking about the Angels, instead of poker.

[fckthis 0]

Im with grinder. Just unlikely villians are here with some garbage draws. I smooth call 60%, and the rest I just re raise to about 1400. Either way Im not doing what OP did, and scaring opponents out of the hand.

[Actuary 3]

Im with grinder. Just unlikely villians are here with some garbage draws. I smooth call 60%, and the rest I just re raise to about 1400. Either way Im not doing what OP did, and scaring opponents out of the hand.

blinds were in for free.pretty likely someone has a gut shot.what pays you off on later streets that won't start paying you off here?not raisng will require you make up about 2000t in later rounds.

[fckthis 0]

blinds were in for free.pretty likely someone has a gut shot.what pays you off on later streets that won't start paying you off here?not raisng will require you make up about 2000t in later rounds.

Any over card, any 3 or 5 chasing a 5 outer. 44,66. Small range, but Im willing to risk it here, just to get alot of chips. But even if we disagree on flat callin here, we agree that OP's raise is just too much.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Meh, I thought about this hand, and I have to change my mind and reject my past posts. With the blinds in this hand with random hands, it's too dangerous to just smooth call. If there was a small raise and it was just the ep players and the hero, smooth call is perfect. However, with blinds still in, you have to raise this hand.