Tournament Philosophy

[hblask 1]

OK, $5+0.50, 196 players. Note: 4 more players and top 20 pays. Currently top 10 pays.So I'm in this tournament, just terrible cards, clinging to my M of 5. I was in 58th with 68 left. Then I go on a mad run and make it to 3rd place with 45 left. I continue to play well and am in 5th with 18 left.I have several competing goals: 1) Win this damn thing, 2) get in the money, 3) make my first final table. Fortunately, 2 and 3 are the same here. I just can't decide if 1 is more pressing or 2/3. 10th pays $33, 1st pays $350 or so.Anyway, I have pretty good reads on everyone, and get into it with the big stack. I don't think he has anything, he doesn't, and he rivers the straight. I'm down to 8th with 15 left. I'm still convinced I can limp into the money because 10-15 are in trouble. Question 1: should I have just stayed out of that hand? I led out in the betting and he used his big chip lead to chase crap, as I suspected.A few hands later, here's the big question: I flop what I'm pretty sure is the best hand (say 85% sure). Opponent with slightly bigger stack goes all in. Do I call? If I win it, I'm in first and coasting. If I lose, I'm out.My thoughts at the time: I only made it this far by playing aggressively and playing for first. On the other hand, $33 bucks is not bad on a $5 buy in. On the other hand, I'm probably a huge favorite right now.Call the all in and risk the tournament, or fold, play for 10th, and hope for another mad rush from near the bottom?

[Actuary 3]

who's thought is your sig?***********85% sure?sure that you have best hand or 85% sure you'll win at showdown?Because you'd have to have flopped a monster to be 85% sure.****************your post sounds like vague confusion.and I dont play MTT's.but at least I bumped this for you!

[pokerfan1080 0]

Right or wrong, unless I have a really big hand I tend to play for the money first and then try to work on the win. By that I mean I try not to get involved with an all-in bet too often, and try to control the size of the pot and keep it manageable for my stack size.Going up against the big stack can be a fatal error, imo, because he has you covered and the big stack has more room to gamble.If I do decide to get involved with a big stack, my strategy is to play extremely aggressive.

[hblask 1]

who's thought is your sig?***********85% sure?sure that you have best hand or 85% sure you'll win at showdown?Because you'd have to have flopped a monster to be 85% sure.****************your post sounds like vague confusion.and I dont play MTT's.but at least I bumped this for you!

The thought in my sig is, as far as I know, original to me (although sometimes these things creep into my head without my knowledge). When I was a complete newbie (not that long ago) I had trouble remembering whether flush or straight was better, so I made it up.Anyway, as for the meat of the post, I probably gave more information than necessary. By 85%, I meant I was 85% sure I was ahead after the flop, not 85% to win. It turns out it was about that after the flop (he had three outs). The question, then, is if I'm pretty sure I'm well ahead, at least 65/35, and they go all in but it costs all my chips to call, should I call it? Remember, folding assures me $33, calling and winning means a strong chance at around $350 (I probably would've been a close 2nd), and losing means out of the tournament.What would you guys do?

[Actuary 3]

65/35, I call.and you do realize a flush is much harder to make than a straight, right?

[tskillz187 0]

The reason bubble play is so crucial is because a TON of people think they are going in to the tournament to win it, then decide that they've played for 3 hours and want to creep into the money. You need to honestly make this decision with yourself at the beginning of the tournament or else you will be second guessing all of your decisions at one of the most crucial points of the tourney.You need to find the people that are trying to limp into the money (apparently 10-15 if they have let themselves get so low) and then you need to pick on them. In addition to this, if big stacks think they are going to bully you now is a great time to show them that you are in it to win it. 33 dollars is just 6 more buyins to this tourney, the key is to get 1-3 money. I mean unless you are playing on a bankroll of $20 or less I think you should be going for this win everytime.Don't get scared near the bubble, if you take down that big stack you are writing about how you went with your gut and stuck with your guns all the way through the tourney for a nice top 3 payout. You'll be back as long as you stay aggressive.You didn't really state how either of those hands went down either. I'd prefer you to be the one forcing the action in both, as it is much easier to play when your opponents are forced to these decisions than when you are.

[pokerfan1080 0]

If I'm already in the money, I'm probably calling 50+%.With as much as 85%, it's a no-brainer for me, I'm in.

[hblask 1]

You need to find the people that are trying to limp into the money (apparently 10-15 if they have let themselves get so low) and then you need to pick on them. In addition to this, if big stacks think they are going to bully you now is a great time to show them that you are in it to win it. 33 dollars is just 6 more buyins to this tourney, the key is to get 1-3 money. I mean unless you are playing on a bankroll of $20 or less I think you should be going for this win everytime.Don't get scared near the bubble, if you take down that big stack you are writing about how you went with your gut and stuck with your guns all the way through the tourney for a nice top 3 payout. You'll be back as long as you stay aggressive.You didn't really state how either of those hands went down either. I'd prefer you to be the one forcing the action in both, as it is much easier to play when your opponents are forced to these decisions than when you are.

OK, this is about what I was thinking, I didn't know if I was way off on this. I played it from the start with the idea of winning or losing, no limping into the bubble. Given the choice throughout the tournament to play for first or preserve chips, I played for first (which is unlike me, btw). But when it was that close, I started doubting myself.For specifics of the hand involved, I limped in on the BB with A7s, flop comes 973 rainbow. I bet about half the pot. This may be a possible leak in my game that could be discussed, how to play middle pairs in this situation. I always seem to struggle. Anyway, villain goes all-in. Having paid attention, I put him on Ax or two face cards. Any other hand that could beat me would've raised preflop, except maybe 33, and I chose to ignore that. A9 would played to keep me in the hand. So I'm probably 85% sure I'm ahead. I called, I was correct, he had A10, I'm dominating, and the 10 comes on the river. Game over. This was last week, and I've been going over it in my head trying to answer the subtitle to this thread....What's sad, four more entrants in the tourney and I would've been in the money at 13th.So, someone want to start a thread on how to handle a flopped middle pair top kicker late in the tournament?Edit note: just after I posted this, I was finally gaining traction in that same tournament, the same situation came up: AQ, hit my A, bet, someone goes all in with AT, hit their ten, I'm out. WTF?Twice in a row, same tournament, lose to an idiot with three outs.

[fckthis 0]

Its quite simple. Do you wanna be tom mcevoy, or the grinder? Sneaking into the money simply doenst pay well. Top-rated tournement players rarely just CREEP into the money. BUT, i understand where you are, and how you feel, when 3hrs in, you'd rather make a cash then lose it all and make your time useless. So here's my advice, try and accumlate ALOT, and I mean ALOT of chips really early. This way if you bust, you havent wasted alot of time, and if you get these chips, you wont think about just making the money, as you will have a better oppurtunity to win it. Also, if your example comes up again, its ok to try and squeeze in the money. A few hrs in and shortstacked is a bad situation, but I feel that if it occurs, then just try and squeeze.So inconclusion, your goal should to be accumlate chips. But if you're shortstacked after a long time playing, nearing the money, its ok to try and squeeze in a cash.

[throwemaway 0]

All the advice that has been given to you is great, you need to accumulate chips early, establish your goals before hand, trust your reads, etc...But how about posting the hand histories from the examples you have given..That way we can give you more specific advice on how to play the hand, if you indeed made a mistake..Unless they are bad beats, whcih they very well may be..But maybe there is something you could have done differently along the way to eliminate the hand from going to showdown, etc