Controlling The Size Of The Pot

[Cash_Rules 0]

Daniel mentioned in the protege webcast that one difference between no limit and pot limit was that you can control the size of the pot in pot limit. Can anyone give some examples how and when you would control the size of the pot in pot limit hold 'em? When would you want a big pot vs. a small pot?Thanks.

[Butcho22 0]

You would want a big pot if you have an open ended straight flush draw on the flop heads up.You would want a small pot with TPTK on the flop against multiple opponents involved in the hand.There are many other situations, but these are just some black/white examples.

[Cash_Rules 0]

Really? I would have thought it was the exact opposite. The theory being that if you hit your straigh or flush, you can beat many opponents. But your top pair, top kicker is more vulnerable with more opponents. I suppose that is why you want a small pot, because its easier to get away from.

[Wingmaster05 0]

Really? I would have thought it was the exact opposite. The theory being that if you hit your straigh or flush, you can beat many opponents. But your top pair, top kicker is more vulnerable with more opponents. I suppose that is why you want a small pot, because its easier to get away from.

Disclaimer: i don't play much NL.Many opponents aren't going to call a large raise on the turn or river however.yes you don't want to get stuck in a large pot with tptk against a big field.

[bobbywithani 0]

Daniel mentioned in the protege webcast that one difference between no limit and pot limit was that you can control the size of the pot in pot limit. Can anyone give some examples how and when you would control the size of the pot in pot limit hold 'em? When would you want a big pot vs. a small pot?Thanks.

I believe what he means is that when you have TP/TK you would want a small pot simply because it is easier to give your opponents bad odds to call.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I believe what he means is that when you have TP/TK you would want a small pot simply because it is easier to give your opponents bad odds to call.

Nope.He meant that you want to play a small pot with TPTK because of the vulnerability of the hand--especially multiway. With an OESFD, you want to get as much money in the pot when your equity is the highest (the flop).

[mk 11]

And this is why position is so important in PL and NL games--because you can control the size of the pot.

[Butcho22 0]

To take it one step further....I wouldn't mind playing a large pot with a OESFD against multiple opponents, as long as I am drawing to the nut straight and a very high flush. Heads up you can figure if you make your flush/straight it will be good regardless of size...unless of course there are 4 straight/flush cards on the board.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

To take it one step further....I wouldn't mind playing a large pot with a OESFD against multiple opponents, as long as I am drawing to the nut straight and a very high flush. Heads up you can figure if you make your flush/straight it will be good regardless of size...unless of course there are 4 straight/flush cards on the board.

KcQc on a board of JcTcX, for example.

[ricker 0]

The way I understand it, the bigger the pot, the more equity you have in drawing to those flush/straight draws. With TP/TK you want to win the small pot so you don't give people with draws to come after you thruogh implied odds.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

The way I understand it, the bigger the pot, the more equity you have in drawing to those flush/straight draws. With TP/TK you want to win the small pot so you don't give people with draws to come after you thruogh implied odds.

REALLY, REALLY think this through.."Do I want to play a big pot with TPTK or an OESFD?"TPTK = Top Pair Top KickerOESFD = Open Ended Straight Flush Draw

[BeaverStyle 1]

REALLY, REALLY think this through.."Do I want to play a big pot with TPTK or an OESFD?"TPTK = Top Pair Top KickerOESFD = Open Ended Straight Flush Draw

I have fun making different meanings for poker acronymns:OESFDOh eric, serious, f*cking die!does that make me a bad person?

[nomad_monad 0]

The way I understand it, the bigger the pot, the more equity you have in drawing to those flush/straight draws.

If by "more" you mean you have more in absolute monetary terms, then yes. If by "more" you mean that you have a higher % equity, then no.If you have a OESD + flush draw on the flop, and assuming you are not up against any competing draws that would beat yours if your draw hit, you have 15 outs for a little greater than 50% equity. Whether the pot is $10 or $1000, your % equity doesn't increase as the pot gets bigger, although your absolute monetary equity does. In other words, your equity as it is commonly understood doesn't change as the pot increases - your variance does.But if you stop to think about this for a moment, you'll see why the above statement isn't really the reason you play a big pot with an OESFD. If it was, you'd want to play any pot that is getting bigger where your expected flop equity is greater than your opponents' because your absolute monetary equity is increasing - and this includes many situations where you are holding TPTK.The real reasons you don't want to play a big pot with TPTK have to do with the relative vulnerability of the hand:1) It is the absolute nuts by the river only in the improbable cases that you catch runner-runner to a flush/top str8/quads/fullhouse2) In a heads up or 3 way pot facing heavy action that leads to a big pot, you are usually up against something stronger from the start.3) In a big pot that is greater than 3 way, the average winning hand is usually stronger than TPTK. 4) In a big pot that is multiway, you may have to make such a large bet to try and shut out draws that you end up committing yourself, which is bad because a) you could already be behind B) your attempt to price out a draw fails due to one loose caller c) you can't really price out a draw even by potting the flop. this can happen when an opponent's stack is close to or less than the size of your flop bet, meaning they can call all-in with a flush or str8 draw and be getting the correct odds since they can't face any more bets to see the riverConversely, similar reasons are why you'd play an OESD+flush draw in a big pot. Heads-up and even facing heavy action, you are likely to be a slight favorite to win. In a multiway situation, there may be competing draws, but you at least have the chance to improve to the absolute nuts.

With TP/TK you want to win the small pot so you don't give people with draws to come after you thruogh implied odds.

Actually, it is the opposite. Firstly, you want the pot small with TPTK because it's a vulnerable hand and the bigger the action you face, the bigger the hands you are likely up against. Secondly, you want the pot small with TPTK since it is easier to kick draws out by giving them poor DIRECT odds. Say for example, you hold TPTK and the pot is only $10 in a 1-2 NL game, and everyone has a stack of $200. It's you and 2 others. You bet $10 on the flop. Even if both players call, they have called $10 to win $30 for odds of 3-1. While being an ok price, it's still less than any flush or str8 draw to see the turn card. Notice, however, that with $190 left, they might be coming after you based on implied odds even though the pot is relatively small. Think about it - the smaller the pot, the bigger your stack is likely to be relative to the pot, thus actually offering implied odds. The bigger the pot, the smaller your stack is likely to be relative to the pot, thus offering much smaller implied odds. For example, consider the same situation, except the pot is now $100. You pot it and get the same 2 callers. If on a draw, an opponent who calls $100 can expect to win only another $100 from you, as opposed to the previous situation, where they called $10 to potentially win $190. Now also assume that the turn bricks. The pot is now $400. Even if you push all-in here, you can't price out a flush draw here, whereas in the previous situation, with the pot being only $40, you can bet the pot again and shut out the chasers.

[profxavier9 0]

analysis kills me sometimes.....basically its what kenny rogers said "you gotta know when you holdem...yada yada yada"