My Wsop Razz Odyssey

[scottyno 0]

Do you always try for a steal when you have the lowest or at least second lowest door card, regardless of position and regardless of your hole cards?Monty

Sometimes I do just because Im a crazy razz maniac If there are more than 2 people in front of me showing 8 or lower unless I have a good read on them and know them to be weak tight Im not going to try to steal. If everyone in front of me has 9 or higher Im raising to steal it every time. Even if I get called Im going to bet again on 4th and keep applying pressure unless I draw really bad and they draw really good. If theres only 1 low card in front of me I'll probably try to steal if I have a decent hand (AT)5 or something like that, so even if I get called Im probably not that far behind. The key to stealing is that you have to have something good showing obviously, your door card is the most important part of your starting hand, your down cards dont mean anything unless the hand gets to showdown.and yes I am a total razz maniac that destroys people in short handed and heads up games but used to play way too crazy for full table but Im working on adjusting my game so I dont steal as much full table and just wait for good starting hands.

[etip 0]

Well I tilted for the first time in awhile yesterday and lost almost $300 at $5-$10. Razz really can be frustrating when you start with A2/3 and catch Q84J, lol. Since I only have $1100 in my account now I will probably drop to $3/6 next time I play, but I am going to concentrate on NL holdem for a bit in order to get back up to $1500+.

[starfit 0]

Well I tilted for the first time in awhile yesterday and lost almost $300 at $5-$10. Razz really can be frustrating when you start with A2/3 and catch Q84J, lol. Since I only have $1100 in my account now I will probably drop to $3/6 next time I play, but I am going to concentrate on NL holdem for a bit in order to get back up to $1500+.

This is my favorite thread by far. I haven't posted here before, but I thank everyone for their stories and suggestions. FCP!

[KingJames 11]

This is my favorite thread by far. I haven't posted here before, but I thank everyone for their stories and suggestions. FCP!

Cuz we're all so pretty or cuz it's about razz? swGreat point though, great discussion/strategy and advice. I'm a razz newb, but I'm working, cuz it looks like HORSE is the game of the future... plus we want DN to like us, cuz we're not NL donks (sw again)Good luck to allJames

[FullMontyM1 0]

Does anyone have any info on what good razz hand history statistics would be?Monty

[etip 0]

This is my favorite thread by far. I haven't posted here before, but I thank everyone for their stories and suggestions. FCP!

LOL well if you care that much - I now have $1650 after a final table and destroying the $33 NL sngs - shameless brag!!! - no real razz except for I played $8-16, dropped a couple hundred at first, then made it back. That session was scary but I'm glad I made it back.I am thinking of trying to qualify for the $50,000 HORSE tournament. That would be insane.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

I'm having general difficulty in that everyone will go to the river with me, regardless of how tight i play. Even with a monster like 3 5 | A 2, i'm still getting callers all the way to the river drawing to at best a 9 high. This sounds fantastic, except when my next 4 cards pair me or are paint. Happened to me a few too many times the past few days and i'm taking it easy until sklansky on razz comes tomorrow.

[FullMontyM1 0]

Are you raising or limping most of the time with premium starting hands?Monty

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Are you raising or limping most of the time with premium starting hands?Monty

complete or raise if already completed. keeping in mind what of my "outs" are up and what of my hole cards are up (as this decreases the chances that I will pair up)

[FullMontyM1 0]

Yeah, if you can't get a few people out at the beginning and there are a lot of calling stations, razz can get pretty frustrating. Just keep a even head and you'll win out against them in the long run.Monty

[etip 0]

complete or raise if already completed. keeping in mind what of my "outs" are up and what of my hole cards are up (as this decreases the chances that I will pair up)

You're still playing lower limits right? I suggest playing $2/4 or $3/6 if you can -- there is a major assumption in most basic strategies for any form of poker, and that is that your opponents are rational -- in the lower limits, usually your opponents are irrational, which can be GREAT but it can also lead to some MAJOR swings in terms of BB/hr or whatever. My opinion is that it is literally possible to NEVER get out of the .50/1 level in your entire lifetime simply because the variance is so high (in razz, holdem, omaha, whatever). Which means that it is probably a better move to step a little outside of your bankroll and try not to get unlucky at a higher level (note the way I worded that), and watch your roll grow significantly.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

How rational is 1/2 ? That's as high as i feel I can sit based on bankroll alone

[iggymcfly 0]

You're still playing lower limits right? I suggest playing $2/4 or $3/6 if you can -- there is a major assumption in most basic strategies for any form of poker, and that is that your opponents are rational -- in the lower limits, usually your opponents are irrational, which can be GREAT but it can also lead to some MAJOR swings in terms of BB/hr or whatever. My opinion is that it is literally possible to NEVER get out of the .50/1 level in your entire lifetime simply because the variance is so high (in razz, holdem, omaha, whatever). Which means that it is probably a better move to step a little outside of your bankroll and try not to get unlucky at a higher level (note the way I worded that), and watch your roll grow significantly.

This is terrible advice. No matter how high your variance is, you're going to make more bets in the long run playing low limits against bad players than you will playing high limits against good players. If this kind of games not beatable, it will be because of the rake and a high ante structure, not the variance due to calling stations.

[etip 0]

This is terrible advice. No matter how high your variance is, you're going to make more bets in the long run playing low limits against bad players than you will playing high limits against good players. If this kind of games not beatable, it will be because of the rake and a high ante structure, not the variance due to calling stations.

I'm not saying they're unbeatable at all. I don't feel like explaining my reasoning again - but have you ever played $3/6 holdem at the casino? If so you know what I'm talking about.Yes, you will make more bets in the long run playing lower limits, but the bets in the higher limits are, well, higher, lol, and from experience I think it is more profitable to skip the lower limits and play for real $$.

[iggymcfly 0]

What I was taking issue with was the statement that you could play 0.5/1 for your whole lifetime and never make enough money to move up due to the variance. My point was that no matter how high the variance it becomes negligible in the long run, and even in a never fold game, that won't take more than 10 or 20 thousand hands to reach.However, if you're trying to learn how to play the game properly and you can afford it, then I'd agree that you probably want to start at a somewhat reasonable level.(P.S. The only live game I could play from August to December was 3/6, although it was all full of nitty college students and was much tighter than the higher stakes games I play now.)

[starfit 0]

What I was taking issue with was the statement that you could play 0.5/1 for your whole lifetime and never make enough money to move up due to the variance. My point was that no matter how high the variance it becomes negligible in the long run, and even in a never fold game, that won't take more than 10 or 20 thousand hands to reach.However, if you're trying to learn how to play the game properly and you can afford it, then I'd agree that you probably want to start at a somewhat reasonable level.(P.S. The only live game I could play from August to December was 3/6, although it was all full of nitty college students and was much tighter than the higher stakes games I play now.)

I'll be in Vegas from May 7-11. Are there any Razz games that are not $400-$800 at Bellagio?

[KingJames 11]

I'll be in Vegas from May 7-11. Are there any Razz games that are not $400-$800 at Bellagio?

I did a quick google, and it turns out the Mirage spreads a 15/30 razz game and higher of course. Hope this helps...James

[starfit 0]

Thanks James.