Incubus77546 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 https://www.pokernetwork.co.uk/games/handhi...umber=268166631Im in the Big Blind with 5-3 offsuit and it folds on to a person who is shortstacked and he min-raises it up to $600 which is about ½ of his stack. Its folded to me and since I already have $300 invested I decided to take a look at the flop and my read on my opponent was A-K suited or something of the likes so I was hoping to hit a low flop and push my opponent out or get him to put in his remaining chips with over cards. The flop comes 2-6-4 and I flop a straight. He bets pretty much all of his remaining chips and I push in a little more to put him all in and he calls. My read was way off as he showed pocket Aces and my Straight holds up. Even though my read was off was this still a good play? If the flop woulda been a bunch of paint I could have easily thrown my hand away... Just wanna see yalls 2 cents. Link to post Share on other sites
fmlycar 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 well AA played the hand horribly, i don't mind you taking a cheap flop already having money invested, you were getting 3.5 to 1 on your money. You hit the flop hard and busted AA. This is why min raising preflop is a horrible play, it prices the BB in to calling with just about any two cards getting 3.5 to 1. So no not a bad call preflop imho Link to post Share on other sites
offset 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 You left out a lot of information such as stack size, position, etc. There are a few rare circumsances when this would be a good call, "AK suited or something of the likes" is probably not a good enough reason to play it. Link to post Share on other sites
Incubus77546 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 offset check the link above my first post it has the stack sizes and everything... and what I said about my read I put him pretty much on A-K, A-Q, or A-J possibly suited. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think 5 3 is too weak. He is pretty much pot committed at this point, so you can't push him off, you can only beat him. Even when you do hit the flop, it will usually be bottom pair. Then you have to play bottom pair. Even if you think he has AK etc, you have no way of knowing this. He could just as likely have any number of hands. I think it's a bad play. Minimum calling hand here is more like 87 suited IMO. Also, post tourney hands in the tourney forum, you'll get more responses. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 bad callsimple reason.his stack is too small.your implied odds suck. Link to post Share on other sites
jjgoldy5 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 bad callsimple reason.his stack is too small.your implied odds suck. Link to post Share on other sites
srblan 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 based on your read, your call wasn't that bad. You are getting over 3-1 on your call. Link to post Share on other sites
offset 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 After reading the HH, you have about 5 big blinds in front of you. This is a horrendous call. When your stack is this low you are looking for all in opportunities, first in the pot, with basically any two cards. As low as 64offsuit if you are first in the pot is all in no matter what (If you don't believe me read Harrington on hold 'em volume 2). As actuary stated, you do not have nearly enough implied odds to play this hand, and even if you and your opponent had 100000000000000000000000000000000 big blinds it would be at best a marginal situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Incubus77546 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 Blinds were 150-300 and I had a stack of 5,280... how is this 5 Big Blinds? Link to post Share on other sites
HtotheNootch 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 You can't not call when you've got those odds and cards that are working together.You just happened to hit the motherlode this time. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 If he showed you his AK face up, the preflop call might be justified.Your hunch doesnt count.Everyone and their grandmother "puts" people on AK. Do you have any good reason whatsoever to believe he has AK as opposed to, say, JJ? None? None at all? Ok then. Good read. Link to post Share on other sites
Incubus77546 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 I put him on a weaker hand than a pocket pair because I would figure if he had a strong pocket pair (or any pocket pair to say the least) he would push in all of his remaining chips which would have made it an easy fold to me. For some reason the min-raise made me think he wanted to see a flop with some over cards. Trust me when I look back on it I dont really think it was that good of a play but I just saw it as only 300 more to call to see a flop and Im already halfway in it. My style of play Im not a big "all in preflop" type of guy I like to see lots of cheap flops and go from there. Like timewakefield said 5-3 is too weak of a hand to call even this min-raise. But as the topic says "I got lucky" Though I would be really interested to see what DN would have to say about the hand... Thanks for all the input everybody Link to post Share on other sites
Fanatikk 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 fmlycar? How did the guy with AA play this hand horribly?? He played it perfectly, in my opinion. He's looking down at AA on the button with 1400 in chips 300/150 blinds. Everyone has folded to him. All he has is the small and big blinds in the hand. His objective here is to keep these guys in the hand. He wants to triple up or at least double up. By doubling the big blind he'll probably enduce a call or even a raise since he has so few chips. Why would he just want to steal the blinds at this point? He's shortstacked and needs chips. If he gets unlucky, so be it. Link to post Share on other sites
NocturnalRob 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 fmlycar? How did the guy with AA play this hand horribly?? He played it perfectly, in my opinion. He's looking down at AA on the button with 1400 in chips 300/150 blinds. Everyone has folded to him. All he has is the small and big blinds in the hand. His objective here is to keep these guys in the hand. He wants to triple up or at least double up. By doubling the big blind he'll probably enduce a call or even a raise since he has so few chips. Why would he just want to steal the blinds at this point? He's shortstacked and needs chips. If he gets unlucky, so be it.people like you are the reason i own so many nice things. Link to post Share on other sites
Fanatikk 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 play me anytime, I play at the lowly $0.50/$1 $1/2 nl tables on pokerhost. screen name Fanatikk.Thx for the constructive critisism. Honestly, instead of smart comments, why not just tell me why this is such a bad play? I mean, yes of course with say a big stack and 5 limpers, doubling the blind is horrible...but in this situation where he's short stacked, the blinds are high, and there's only 2 other people in the hand...what makes this such a moronic play? Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Fanatikk,I'm not much of a NL guy or Tourney for that matter.But, I'd say you have to push here with AA.Stealing Blinds is huge +EV especialy given the stack to blind ratio.no reason to let others in cheap.***********Hootch,op's hand "works together", but villan has no chips left to win.I still say op's call was not good. Link to post Share on other sites
NocturnalRob 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Fanatikk,I'm not much of a NL guy or Tourney for that matter.But, I'd say you have to push here with AA.Stealing Blinds is huge +EV especialy given the stack to blind ratio.no reason to let others in cheap.***********Hootch,op's hand "works together", but villan has no chips left to win.I still say op's call was not good.Actuary, you are a kinder man than I. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Actuary, you are a kinder man than I.lol, I have my days!kicking them in the nuts is a good way to make the point as well, I was half answering / half confirming my own thoughts here.You, more experienced, were certain and wanted to not mince words.ok... gosh, this is going to be a group hug soon. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 He supposedly raised it up to 600, which was (according to the OP) half his stack.The pot is 1350 if he gets a single caller at least (dead SB money), and more it's someone besides the BB who calls. He has 600 left. If that's the case, it makes no difference if he minraised or pushed. Anyone calling the raise should realize that they're commited to the flop bet with virtually anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 He supposedly raised it up to 600, which was (according to the OP) half his stack.The pot is 1350 if he gets a single caller at least (dead SB money), and more it's someone besides the BB who calls. He has 600 left. If that's the case, it makes no difference if he minraised or pushed. Anyone calling the raise should realize that they're commited to the flop bet with virtually anything.Abba, don't be retarded.Being committed post flop is not the same thing as calling 4x BB preflop."Well, I called the raise to 5000 preflop..uh..because if he only bet 2500...uh...I'd be pot committed for the rest anyway post flop....uhuuhhhhhh"than again, I'm no tourney specialist. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 For someone who has to call 4BB's preflop to a push, the flop bet after a minraise would have been 1/3rd of the pot. There is hardly anything that they call with preflop that they dont call on almost any flop. If two people call (which is great), the bet is 1/5th of the pot. WHO FOLDS?!If they're more inclined to call 2BB's preflop and toss out the next 2 on any virtually flop because you minraised as opposed to pushing for 4BB's, then how can it be that bad?I dont really think they're more inclined to call 2 than 4. At least not significantly so. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 your saying you don't mind enticing them, hence allowing them to make a mistake unknowingly?I agree are flop bet gets called almost always if we come in for 2xBut I'd rather take the blinds and maybe get called while WAY ahead.I disagree that most anyone calling 2x preflop calls 4x. It kills their implied odds to call a push.I should play more tournies. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 They're making almost as much of a mistake by calling the first 2, if they're going to dump the next 2 on any ragged flop thinking that their cards are live.I'd just push. But i dont think it makes a big difference.Calling with 3/5off is a bigger mistake than him minraising in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStrap 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I don't think you're very wrong either folding in this spot, or calling as you did.I like the way you played it, though, especially since you had him heads-up.#1 Since he's short stacked he's very likely to be playing a less than premium hand (lol, though obviously not the case this time)#2 Since he's short stacked, if you catch a piece of the flop and get him all-in against you, you have him covered and he really can't hurt you that much.since he's short stacked everyone at the table will be trying to bust him and get his chips, so why shouldn't you take a shot while you have the chance.Also, even if he wins the pot, he will still be relatively short stacked and you can take another shot at him down the road, plus he'll be occupying that seat so that some guy with 30,000 chips can't get moved there from another table, so not really a big tradgedy if he wins the pot.Also, I agree with Fantastic, it think it was... I think the villain played the aces fine. The guy is short stacked, if I'm him the worst thing that can happen is that I ONLY win the blinds with my aces. I would welcome three, even four other players into the pot at that point. Yeah, my aces will get cracked more often that way, but when they hold up I will make a significant addition to my stack. He just really doesn't have much to lose at this point slow playing them, and much more to gain. DON"T GET ME WRONG, If I'm running good and have a decent stack I'm raising with the aces, but this guy needs to get as many chips as he can and soon!flame away Link to post Share on other sites
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