crowTrobot 2 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Hmm...sin isnt allowed on earth...those people were sinners...Noah tried to save them...warned them..begged them...THey decided what was best for them and they paid the price...not God's fault..He gave them warningsuggesting the genesis flood account is literal just undermines whatever credibility you have. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 suggesting the genesis flood account is literal just undermines whatever credibility you have.do you have more of that empirical proof to share with us? Frankly we dont know exactly what happened that far back..so it is quite wrong of you to suppose what did happen...good try though Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I've never seen Matt so stumped before. These half-hearted rebuttles are very uncharacteristic.Just admit that you're not sure. It's ok...that doesn't make you less of a good person. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 do you have more of that empirical proof to share with us? Frankly we dont know exactly what happened that far back..so it is quite wrong of you to suppose what did happen...good try though http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.htmlhttp://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/evolution/C...nism/flood.htmlhttp://baby.indstate.edu/gga/pmag/northrup.htm Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 As i skimmed through the websites i noticed 2 things. Mainly that they posed a lot of questions but no actual proof. The short answer is that there is a lot we still dont know happened with it. They posed good questions, but thats all they are, questions that we dont have all the answers to yet. As you know..it takes time to find the answers and we will find the answers Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Mainly that they posed a lot of questions but no actual proof.disproof posed in the form of questions is still disproof.The short answer is that there is a lot we still dont know happened with it.we know what didn't happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 disproof posed in the form of questions is still disproof.we know what didn't happen.first statement doesnt make any sense. All that is posed are questions...we dont have all the answers yet...that answer works good when talkin about evolution but not with biblical situations? we? Actually you dont know. You HOPE that the bible isnt true..but that doesnt mean it isnt Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 first statement doesnt make any sense. All that is posed are questions...we dont have all the answers yet...that answer works good when talkin about evolution but not with biblical situations? we? Actually you dont know. You HOPE that the bible isnt true..but that doesnt mean it isnti'm out for the weekend. i'm sure everyone will appreciate the break from this intellectually kindergarten-level discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 i'm out for the weekend. i'm sure everyone will appreciate the break from this intellectually kindergarten-level discussion.haha... Link to post Share on other sites
76clubs 0 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I didnt read it Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I didnt read ityou didnt miss much Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Hmm so these young men taunted Elijah...questioned God, there was a group of at least 42 of them...in a culture that advocated violence and you wonder what was to happen to them? Again words dont take into account the seriousness of the situation. Imagine 42 people surrounding you, taunting you, probably threatening you and taunting your God...Do you think Elijah just stood there? Do you think he didnt warn them? They mocked God and threatened His prophet...what is He supposed to do?I believe he is suppose to take it sort of like Jesus and Steven took the taunting and threatening (and in the end killing). Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 I believe he is suppose to take it sort of like Jesus and Steven took the taunting and threatening (and in the end killing).Finally a sane response. Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Finally a sane response.I don't know if thats suppose to be scarcastic or not.I know this, most of us given the same situation of being surrounded and taunted probably would do the same thing as Elijah (even if we didn't say it, we would probably be thinking it).But what we are suppose to do is turn the other cheek and its something most of us fail on every day. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I've never seen Matt so stumped before. These half-hearted rebuttles are very uncharacteristic.Just admit that you're not sure. It's ok...that doesn't make you less of a good person.I am not sure what I am to admit? That I dont understand all that God has done? Absolutely...Do I understand why things that have occurred had to be that way? Of course not. Another problem that I have had with answering these questions is that they come from people who dont want to actually listen to reason. zzz has it stuck in his head what he wants to believe is right and since he found verses that fit his own belief. He has just said to forget about the rest of the bible. I am more than open to having real discussions. But people like zzz dotn want to admit they are ever wrong and it is really not something i want to spend my time on. I have been tryin to keep the facts of the verses straight and to present the argument but I have attempted to avoid the issues that are just personal attacks or answers that are based off of bad info that wont listen to reason. All i have tried to do so far is to say that:1. They werent little children, At the age they were at they would have been old enough to do battle. 2. When surrounded by at least 42 of these people Elijah stood strong3. God protected His servant. I am not sure what else you could expect from Him4. A message was sent that Elijah was from God wasnt it? I believe he is suppose to take it sort of like Jesus and Steven took the taunting and threatening (and in the end killing).Stephen didnt go quietly did he? Also we are talkin about 2 different time periods. One before the return of the Messiah and one after. Prophets were absolutely necessary before the coming of Jesus to predict such events. People needed to see the might of God before the coming of Jesus. This event with Elijah is not even what I consider his greatest feat. Link to post Share on other sites
phlegm 6 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Im no bible scholar by any means, but im just curious why the op brings up christianity when there wasnt any christians during the time kings was written? Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Im no bible scholar by any means, but im just curious why the op brings up christianity when there wasnt any christians during the time kings was written?Well it is the same God so that would be thier reasoning. You are very correct though that Jesus's coming changed things obviously. I mean when God comes to the earth you will see some changes. More so I would like to point out that the NT is much more blunt with how evil will be dealt with then the OT. Link to post Share on other sites
DerekTah 0 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Stephen didnt go quietly did he? Also we are talkin about 2 different time periods. One before the return of the Messiah and one after. Prophets were absolutely necessary before the coming of Jesus to predict such events. People needed to see the might of God before the coming of Jesus. This event with Elijah is not even what I consider his greatest feat.Yes, we are talking about two periods of time, none the less my answer to your question of what Steven is suppose to do is correct. The thing you people must remember is that other than Jesus there were no perfect people, only those God favored. Considering the fact that in all probablity the youths in question did intend more than verbal assail Elijah, then I do consider the response by God justified (at the same time the story is troubling in my mind. There will always be troubling stories in the Bible)But if asked did Elijah sined, the answer is yes he did (granted as most of us would have sined in the same spot). Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I've never seen Matt so stumped before. These half-hearted rebuttles are very uncharacteristic.Just admit that you're not sure. It's ok...that doesn't make you less of a good person. He cant do that. He will jump up and down naked on a stack of rubber bibles pretending that he is actually versed in the Hebrew language and somehow actually has an intact usable facsimile of the original Hebrew text, and can sit down and leaf through it like it's as easy as a comic book. He's either the most eduacated religous fanatic I have ever come across- and loaded too, that Hebrew bible must have cost an absolute fortune. Or, he just listens to what others tell him and repeats it, like the rest of the clones. Good luck with that. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 He cant do that. He will jump up and down naked on a stack of rubber bibles pretending that he is actually versed in the Hebrew language and somehow actually has an intact usable facsimile of the original Hebrew text, and can sit down and leaf through it like it's as easy as a comic book. He's either the most eduacated religous fanatic I have ever come across- and loaded too, that Hebrew bible must have cost an absolute fortune. Or, he just listens to what others tell him and repeats it, like the rest of the clones. Good luck with that.again with the personal attacks lois....Do I know Hebrew? no...but im not ignorant enough to think that the bible is word for word so I check out sources that do direct translations..I am sorry but ur precious kjv isnt a perfect translation and you are in fact wrong. Plus the much simplier fact that your "views" cause the bible to be a contradiction...but good luck Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 again with the personal attacks lois....Do I know Hebrew? no...but im not ignorant enough to think that the bible is word for word so I check out sources that do direct translations..I am sorry but ur precious kjv isnt a perfect translation and you are in fact wrong. Plus the much simplier fact that your "views" cause the bible to be a contradiction...but good luck So you don't know Hebrew? Didn't think so. You don't have a Hebrew bible you can cross reference the KJV against? Didn't think so. So, in fact, you are just a clone, repeating what your teachers tell you. Sad, man. Good luck with that. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 So you don't know Hebrew? Didn't think so. You don't have a Hebrew bible you can cross reference the KJV against? Didn't think so. So, in fact, you are just a clone, repeating what your teachers tell you. Sad, man. Good luck with that.This again makes no sense. I dont speak hebrew. That doesnt mean I dont have resources that translate for me? Do I use the KJV? nope I use a better modern edition. Why would i use a translation that used words relevant 500 years ago? The NASB is the best translation available...You might disagree but you will find that nobody will agree with you on this. Do I repeat what I learn? of course. dont you? If somebody tells me something do I make them prove it to me? Of course..I would hope you do the same...Do I just blindly trust somebody..absolutely not. If I have made a point I have backed it up with scripture. You are free to disagree with me...but you wont find scripture to contradict me Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 This again makes no sense. I dont speak hebrew. That doesnt mean I dont have resources that translate for me? Do I use the KJV? nope I use a better modern edition. Why would i use a translation that used words relevant 500 years ago? The NASB is the best translation available...You might disagree but you will find that nobody will agree with you on this. Do I repeat what I learn? of course. dont you? If somebody tells me something do I make them prove it to me? Of course..I would hope you do the same...Do I just blindly trust somebody..absolutely not. If I have made a point I have backed it up with scripture. You are free to disagree with me...but you wont find scripture to contradict me Only problem is that you can't back it with scripture without twisting it unrecognizable. You don't know Hebrew, and therefore have to trust a biased organization that has retranslated the bible to help fit there needs. You are what every unbeliever talks about, and they have every reason to doubt you, because what you preach is grounded in man, noy God. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Only problem is that you can't back it with scripture without twisting it unrecognizable. You don't know Hebrew, and therefore have to trust a biased organization that has retranslated the bible to help fit there needs. You are what every unbeliever talks about, and they have every reason to doubt you, because what you preach is grounded in man, noy God.This comin from the guy who ONLY reads the KJV b/c its infalliable haha. I am sorry but the KJV has many mistakes. You cant even avoid contradicting yourself. No Lois...when i make a statement it is b/c the biblical and secular history both agree on it. Bc i take the time to do the research of what the world was like at that time. Why would somebody lie in a Hebrew translation? Anybody speaking hebrew woudl then contradict them and they woudl lose credibility. So nice try agian. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 This comin from the guy who ONLY reads the KJV b/c its infalliable haha. I am sorry but the KJV has many mistakes. You cant even avoid contradicting yourself. No Lois...when i make a statement it is b/c the biblical and secular history both agree on it. Bc i take the time to do the research of what the world was like at that time. Why would somebody lie in a Hebrew translation? Anybody speaking hebrew woudl then contradict them and they woudl lose credibility. So nice try agian. You make statements that are told you by someone else- your a clone, plain and simple. Link to post Share on other sites
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