22 Is Not As Good As 88.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

Button has been making a lot of steal-raises preflop; he seems solid postflop.To anyone who is paying attention, my image should be tight, but not good otherwise; I'm getting no cards and no flops, and stuck close to 20 BB. I've been aggressive with marginal hands a couple times and would up losing showdowns to slightly better marginal hands.3/6 6-maxPREFLOP:Hero: 2 :icon_suit_club: 2 :icon_suit_spade: 3 folds, button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, button calls.FLOP (6 SB): 6 :icon_suit_spade: 7 :icon_suit_spade: 6 :icon_suit_diamond: Hero bets, button calls.TURN (4 BB): 5 :icon_suit_heart: Hero bets, button calls.RIVER (6 BB): 5 :icon_suit_club: Hero bets,......Is the river bluff +EV? Also, thoughts on preflop?

[Sysvr4 0]

You get called by A-hi a lot on this board. Even by good players. I'm not convinced it's a river bluff, but yes, betting is better than not.Jeff

[AlphaOmega 0]

How do you feel about just calling the raise pre-flop and c/ring a favorable flop?

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I'm not convinced it's a river bluff.Jeff

I'm playing the board. River counterfeited me.

How do you feel about just calling the raise pre-flop and c/ring a favorable flop?

That was the other option I considered (this guy stole enough that I didn't consider folding preflop). I decided to 3-bet because I hadn't 3-bet anything since he sat down, and I thought that might give me a better chance to pick up the pot on the flop, but I'm not sure your line isn't better.

[Sysvr4 0]

I'm playing the board. River counterfeited me.

That's why it's good to read the board before posting. *sigh*I was in a similar situation and took the pot with 4 high once (started with 44). I still say bet, but that's due to historical bias.Jeff

[iggymcfly 0]

You played the hand fine. That river bluff probably succeeds about one time in three or four which is certainly more often than it would need to succed to be +EV.

[greatwhite 0]

How do you feel about just calling the raise pre-flop and c/ring a favorable flop?

I think it is important to 3-bet to isolate preflop. However I would c/r the flop against an agressive opponent as well.

[screech 0]

A bet here is good.If he's dumb, and will bet an A or K, a check/raise is better.I don't really like the pf 3-bet unless villian is really weak postflop.

How do you feel about just calling the raise pre-flop and c/ring a favorable flop?

I like this play.I like a check/call-bet line even better if villian is trustworthy.

[mrdannyg 274]

i generally prefer to smooth call, then CR flops with low pairs HU (usually from blinds, or if i've limped at a loose table but ended up HU). if the flop is good (set or OESD) i reevaluate, but that's the plan.but i think you need to bet that river. i'm not one for desparation bluffs, but this really only has to work 1/6 times. I think you often hear more from 66+ earlier. i assume he calls with A-high, and might fold K-high. if he's folding K-high, its definitely good value.basically, unless he's a rock, i think this is an "easy" bet - as easy as betting while playing the board can be.

[pokerkid 0]

I actually hate the pf call, flop c/r line because the villian always sees the turn.If any paint comes on the turn are we b/f? c/f?I'd rather villian not be able to see the turn.(Screech go easy on me when u tell me i'm wrong)

[screech 0]

I actually hate the pf call, flop c/r line because the villian always sees the turn.If any paint comes on the turn are we b/f? c/f?I'd rather villian not be able to see the turn.(Screech go easy on me when u tell me i'm wrong)

The call pf, c/r the flop line works wonders. The same bets go in either way, except you now get to see the flop and evaluate your hand. It also puts the blind stealer in a tough spot if you constantly do this, because he has no idea what kind of hand you have.

[pokerkid 0]

The call pf, c/r the flop line works wonders. The same bets go in either way, except you now get to see the flop and evaluate your hand. It also puts the blind stealer in a tough spot if you constantly do this, because he has no idea what kind of hand you have.

Looks like we'll agree to disagree...The only time i like your line is against a TAA or a good LAG (i.e some one you're more likely to see at 5/10 than .50/1, which would make up for the diff. in our points of view) who would frequently raise our flop bet with trash and put us in a tough spot.(No offense but u didn't exactly respond to any of my points)

[AlphaOmega 0]

(No offense but u didn't exactly respond to any of my points)

Sure he did. He explained why you shouldn't hate the "call pre-flop and c/r a favorable flop" line. It works wonders, has metagame advantages, and is just a good basic line against blind steals with a playable marginal hand.If paint comes on the turn, we b/f. In a steal situation, paint will often scare the stealer just as much as it scares us.Also, in a steal situation, you'll rarely find someone that is going to just up and fold the flop. Them seeing the turn will make you feel uncomfortable, but you've gotta get used to it.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Not so long ago there were arguments made by a certain member of the forum to fold preflop, if the guy is at all competent post flop.

[AlphaOmega 0]

Not so long ago there were arguments made by a certain member of the forum to fold preflop, if the guy is at all competent post flop.

He said his image was pretty tight and that Button had been making lots of steal attempts. IMO this makes this hand playable because we have a greater amount of fold equity. We also occasionally need to make these kinds of plays to prevent people from robbing us blind.If we alter the factors a bit, this could easily sway the most optimal decision to a muck pre-flop.Who advocated folding pre-flop?

[MrNiceGuy 0]

The call pf, c/r the flop line works wonders. The same bets go in either way, except you now get to see the flop and evaluate your hand. It also puts the blind stealer in a tough spot if you constantly do this, because he has no idea what kind of hand you have.

I do think this is the line I should have used here. Occassionally a preflop 3-bet will get villain to fold the best hand on the flop (i.e. if villain has something like a middle pair, or makes a medium pair on the flop, and the flop comes with an A). But I think more often I can save bets by check-folding ugly flops.I wonder, in general, against a thinking opponent who always makes the continuation bet, if it's best to never 3-bet here, even with big hands, to make yourself harder to read, since you can just check-raise the flop for the same price?I'm not totally sure that folding preflop isn't best; I'm probably a very slight underdog to villain's range. So is it worth saving that small bet to avoid being out of position in a coinflip situation where villain has much better visibility than I do (since I don't have a good idea of what he has)? It might be.