Ax Suited In Omaha H/l

[Cm86 0]

Playing Omaha H/L cash games, is any suited ace enough to see the flop with? Or should I also wait until I have a 2,3 or pair in my hand to go along with it? Thanks.

[Sluggo 0]

No. A2xxs and A3xxs tend to be playable, however.

[AceyDeucy 0]

Playing Omaha H/L cash games, is any suited ace enough to see the flop with? Or should I also wait until I have a 2,3 or pair in my hand to go along with it? Thanks.

No.No.*^&%@(*^@$# NO.The cardinal sin of Omaha H/L (or Stud H/L) is playing for half the pot. You ALWAYS want to play a hand that can scoop the pot. Playing for the high half is slightly more excusable, since there is always a high hand, and it does not get quartered as much. The best H/L hand is AA23 double suited. (two live flush draws, a host of straight draws, and backup for your low if the A,2 or 3 gets counterfeited). Having backup is important, also.The reason I pound this is that hand selection is more key in Omaha than almost any other game, because almost every starting hand catches SOMETHING, and then you chase it, and then you find out it is not good enough only after three or four pot-bets. As much as tightening your play benefits your Texas game, it will do worlds more for your O8 play.

[ChrisOfSpades 0]

No.No.*^&%@(*^@$# NO.The cardinal sin of Omaha H/L (or Stud H/L) is playing for half the pot. You ALWAYS want to play a hand that can scoop the pot. Playing for the high half is slightly more excusable, since there is always a high hand, and it does not get quartered as much. The best H/L hand is AA23 double suited. (two live flush draws, a host of straight draws, and backup for your low if the A,2 or 3 gets counterfeited). Having backup is important, also.The reason I pound this is that hand selection is more key in Omaha than almost any other game, because almost every starting hand catches SOMETHING, and then you chase it, and then you find out it is not good enough only after three or four pot-bets. As much as tightening your play benefits your Texas game, it will do worlds more for your O8 play.

i'd agree with this mostly, except there are definitely some high only hands that are playable in O8. AKJT double suited for example. generally dont play these types of hands OOP tho.

[Sluggo 0]

High only hands are still aiming to scoop.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Yea, because the kind of boards they connect with well dont have a qualifying low.Which is why a pair of aces without an accompanying wheel card is pretty ugly. When you hit your hand hard, the board is one step closer to having a qualifying low.

[Cooker 0]

I think the preflop advice in this forum in general is pretty poor. BB poker is about implied odds and getting lots of money in when the edge is in your favor (usually the later streets). If you are totally horrible postflop, then you should probably play pretty tight and wait on your big nut nut draws and hope you get paid off. I will play almost any suited A with an accompanying wheel card for a limp from anywhere on the table and I have a solid winning BB/100 (around 10) and I am not fantastic postflop. A suited A alone is not playable, but with decent low potential and maybe a high card like A4K9 with a suited A I consider to be playable. If it is raised behind me I will probably call, but I will wait on the better hands to cold call a raise. I will raise these hands from late position if there is only a couple of limpers to try and take control.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I think the preflop advice in this forum in general is pretty poor. BB poker is about implied odds and getting lots of money in when the edge is in your favor (usually the later streets). If you are totally horrible postflop, then you should probably play pretty tight and wait on your big nut nut draws and hope you get paid off. I will play almost any suited A with an accompanying wheel card for a limp from anywhere on the table and I have a solid winning BB/100 (around 10) and I am not fantastic postflop. A suited A alone is not playable, but with decent low potential and maybe a high card like A4K9 with a suited A I consider to be playable. If it is raised behind me I will probably call, but I will wait on the better hands to cold call a raise. I will raise these hands from late position if there is only a couple of limpers to try and take control.

Good advice, but I think you are teaching newbies to run when they are still learning to walk. A4K9 with A suited is playable but not callable to a raise that I am agree with, but playing A4K9 in EP I have to consider who's behind me too. When you are telling them A4K9 is playable they will play but what they lack is the ability to fold so they end up being losers with those marginal hands in marginal situations.

[Cooker 0]

Good advice, but I think you are teaching newbies to run when they are still learning to walk. A4K9 with A suited is playable but not callable to a raise that I am agree with, but playing A4K9 in EP I have to consider who's behind me too. When you are telling them A4K9 is playable they will play but what they lack is the ability to fold so they end up being losers with those marginal hands in marginal situations.

Maybe "generally poor" was a bad choice of words, but I think overly weak tight is more accurate. Clearly, people don't say raise 9987 and fold AA5T. I generally believe you need to play a bit tighter in limit than in PL since your implied odds are not nearly as big in limit. I agree that the beginner should play tight preflop and on the flop, because starting hand selection can often remove tough choices on later streets. I also think that putting realistic playing standards for a reasonable winner (at least in the $25-$100 games) is also useful as a counter point which is what I intended. I also worry that a weak tight mentality may cause more harm than good in terms of developement. The better PLO8 players are not doing nothing but nut peddling and drawing at nut-nut hands.Lets get real, no half decent player that posts here has ever folded an AA hand preflop no matter what they are posting, but most of us realize that there are AA hands and there are AA hands. One loves to see AA3x single suited, because you can virtually always stand on the gas. AAK9 single suited is a trouble hand, but we are all playing it every time.I also think it is a little ironic that DN's site has such a starting hand police mentality in one of his forums when clearly he doesn't share this mentality.

[Chamonyx 0]

BB poker is about implied odds and getting lots of money in when the edge is in your favor (usually the later streets)......etc.

I will lay you a beer to a bottle of Dom that the OP made his post in the context of Fixed Limit as opposed to Pot-Limit.I agree that there is a lot of weak-tight stuff here for PLO8.....but that is probably the most appropriate way for beginners to start to build expereince - which is the way many witll be viewing JKoS' project.

[AceyDeucy 0]

Look, I agree that creative play can be extremely profitable in Omaha, and that being too tight with starting hand selection gives up a lot of value. I also would never fold an AAxx hand, and that my language was too harsh on high-only hands. But I had a point to make, too.The point is that beginners (who would ask about Ace-anything suitedxx) need to tighten up and play with or for the nuts. Part of the beauty of Omaha8 is that at most of the lower levels, you always get paid off. So play hands that CAN get paid off.Being able to handle really sophiscated plays can be absurdly profitable in O8, also. But, in the case of this question, I would definitely hammer Todd Brunson's Platinum Rule (granted, that's a stud thing, but oh well). Loosening your starting hand requirements is the start of some very expensives lessons in this game.

[Vman96 0]

I've folded AAxx preflop in LIMIT O/8 before....but it has to be really junky for me to do it. PLO8...never a reason not to at least limp.

[Abbaddabba 0]

KKQx single suited (or something along those lines) is almost more appealing than an AAxx single suited hand. Much better high potential. Non-nut flushes, but nut straights and sets that rarely connect with the board to form a qualifying low. I play in loose/passive PL08 games so i limp with both types, but i can see why folding either of thsoe in early position would probably be a good idea in tougher games.