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PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is SB with K:heart:, Q:spade:. 1 fold.Flop: (5 SB) 8:club:, Q:diamond:, 5:diamond: (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.Turn: (3.50 BB) J:club: (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+1 calls.River: (7.50 BB) A:club: (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 9.50 BB

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Fold pre-flop unless you have reason to believe that UTG+1 could be pulling this pre-flop raise junk. (So...most of the time, you'll be folding.)

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Fold preflop..KQ is dominated against a good range of raising hands here.Way you played it, raise the flop. You probably have the best hand there, get your money in. Also, if he 3-bets you got some extra info to play the hand better on the turn.

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i had seen this guy raise utg w/ q10s so i'm sure i shouldn't have folded pf. Should i have reraised?Why should i raise the flop when i can get more in on a safe turn, and i am usually not a huge favorite on the flop? I'm not defending my play. I just want to know why it is wrong.Also was my river check fine?

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i had seen this guy raise utg w/ q10s so i'm sure i shouldn't have folded pf.  Should i have reraised?
that could explain some of the calls I get.So, if you see me raise with 99 UTG, will you call with QT off ?If you have several examples of a wide open raising range, the call (or a raise) makes sense. Against competent players, I'd raise the flop, cheaper to see where you are, but against aggro-donks, waitng till turn is goodriver is good against this type of player.please provide better reads in the first place next time :club:
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you called preflop, why?
i can't do this yet, even at a 10-handed table unless i have a read on him as tight preflop.coming from UTG+1, i know i should. help?
you've played enoughkeep calling if it's working for you.
and if not?just curious from what position the raise would have to come from for you to call with no reads.this is assuming you have PT, and therefore usually do have reads.UTG+1 we're likely dominated, or at best with overcards.from the button, i reraise.do you call if the raise comes from anywhere, or only reraising or folding?what if 16/9 raises from the hijack?note that i haven't been playing much, so its these really close situations that i'm thinking about from more of a intellectual standpoint, since i realize the decisions are extremely close EV-wise
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So, if you see me raise with 99 UTG, will you call with QT off ?
Do you see how this analogy is completely irrelevant to the situation? Someone who raises QTs utg is usually also raising other weak hands. Seeing someone raise with QTs is a lot more telling to a a weak hand range than seeing someone raise with 99 because 99 is a much more raisable hand.I'm also surprised that a winning player such as yourself would consider calling a raise with QToff similar to calling a raise with KQ.
that could explain some of the calls I get.
Okay... so now you are insuating that I am a fish.
If you have several examples of a wide open raising range, the call (or a raise) makes sense.
Meanwhile, I move on to the next hand, and notice that he is raising with an even weaker hand range than i had expected and bemoan the fact that I have missed out on some potential money. By the time i've seen 3 or 4 examples he's already left the table. Yes, sometimes I'm up against an opponenet with a hand range better than i had expected, but more times i'm up against a guy whose hand range i expect to win against.In fact, looking back I remember thinking, okay he probably has a somewhat strong hand, but i've already seen him get carried away with a weak hand so if i hit i have a tremoundous amount of implied odds against him.If you've seen a guy raise with 72off from ep, would you still fold the kq because you have not seen enough hands to be sure that it was not just a fluke play? By your logic you should, even though you are usually against a hand range that your kq proves to be good against.
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don't mean to insinuate that you are a fish, anymore than you are insinuating that I'm a winning player. Using PT you can get a sense of his range based on the PFR. If you datamine for 200 hands and its 16% and you see him do it with QTs, it can be useful. However, QTs might be at the low end of his range. He might love suited broadways, and not be the type that raises 99. Seeing him raise with QTS is not reason enough for me to call with KQ off from SB. (especially, if I'm new to Limit)My analogy related to "because you see him raise with onehand weaker than KQ off, do you call with all hands stronger than the one he raised with "you should say no.otherwise, I may not insinuate anymore.

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My analogy related to "because you see him raise with onehand weaker than KQ off, do you call with all hands stronger than the one he raised with "
And I said you should consider his most likely hand range, based on as much evidence as there is, and call or fold depending on if you expect to win against that range.
However, QTs might be at the low end of his range. He might love suited broadways, and not be the type that raises 99.
Or he might be the type that loves low suited facecards, and it might be an even bigger mistake to fold kq. See how the two cancel each other out, giving him a broader hand range?Even if QTs happens to be at the low end of his range (and i gaurantee this will not be as often as you think), he has already shown a propensity to overplay hands, and i have tremendous implied odds if i spike a king or queen.
Seeing him raise with QTS is not reason enough for me to call with KQ off from SB. (especially, if I'm new to Limit)
Yes, it is, and the answer is mainly implied odds. Yes, I'm new to limit, but it's no hard task to have a significant postflop advantage over a .50/1 player, which allows me, along with the other factors, to profitably make this call. Actuary, I have read a lot of your posts, and I deeply respect your opinion, but in this case i think you're wrong. If I had seen 100 hands and this was the only out of line move this guy had made, it would be an easy fold, but because i have not seen many hands with this guy, and one out of the ten hands he played he made this move, the chances are greater that he has a weak range of hands that i have an edge against.Well, I have to go, so this will probably be my last post in the forum for today, but I hope I've made my points clearly, and have explained why I think it is a mistake to fold kq in this spot.
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offset,your own skills will determine how loose you can get withb callnig; but to say you saw him do this 1/10 hands, and thus, can exptrapolte from that that he likely has a loose raising range is ludicrous.Only if the raiser is "very wild" should you play KQ. (straight from SSHE)You know he's very wild from the 1 or two raises he's made that you know of..with no accompaning PT stats over more hands?please, play the hand, and if he's a donk, you can make money, but don't rationalize the call based on such a small sampleIf he's a bad player, you can call with 67s, and usually should before you call with KQ, against normal raising (or slightly broad) ranges

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you called preflop, why?
i can't do this yet, even at a 10-handed table unless i have a read on him as tight preflop.coming from UTG+1, i know i should. help?
you've played enoughkeep calling if it's working for you.
and if not?just curious from what position the raise would have to come from for you to call with no reads.this is assuming you have PT, and therefore usually do have reads.UTG+1 we're likely dominated, or at best with overcards.from the button, i reraise.do you call if the raise comes from anywhere, or only reraising or folding?what if 16/9 raises from the hijack?note that i haven't been playing much, so its these really close situations that i'm thinking about from more of a intellectual standpoint, since i realize the decisions are extremely close EV-wise
Danny,I frankly don't ever like just calling with this hand at the levels I play. Maybe at higher levels it works, but 2/4 and below we're just too easily dominated. I like 3-betting a possible steal raise from LP though especially if the table is a fairly tight one.That's from my head, I just checked SSHE and it says that KQ is a call from the BB against a raise, so I'm gonna go with Ed Miller here and say this is actually ok, even though I don't really like it that well.
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Guest Zach6668

Pretty easy fold. I agree with everything Actuary said. Do you really want to play a hand like KQ out of position like this?I "may" consider 3-betting with KQs, but it depends on reads, most likely won't happen with an EP raise, and no one else in the pot. If it were 4/5 handed, I would call with KQs, but I'm still probably dumping KQo.Notwithstanding the strength of your read, in this case, you say tha he is a loose preflop raiser. Ok, then 3-bet him, and make sure you have this heads up. Don't let the BB in. Not to mention that fact that his cap could be a tell as well. What have you seen him cap with in the past? Did he cap with QTs, etc? If you are going to play against a player who is a bit of a preflop maniac, then 3-bet, isolate him, and proceed from there.Now that you have the preflop info. You need to check/raise this flop. Again, info is the key. Postflop reads would be nice as well. How does he play top pair decent kicker, etc...These aren't easy hands to play. You need to have a very strong read to get maximum value from them.Anyways. Fold preflop. Raise the flop. Lead the turn. I like the check/call on the river, however.Zach

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