where are more fishies -- online or casinos?

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Without offending anyone, I feel I have a better sample of play to make an edjucated argument.

But you don't.LA is not representative of live play as a whole. LA live play may be much better than Online play, I'll give ya that. But AS A WHOLE, ACROSS THE NATION, Online is not nearly as fishy as you'll see in the average B&M.

[joball33 0]

Without offending anyone, I feel I have a better sample of play to make an edjucated argument.

But you don't.LA is not representative of live play as a whole. LA live play may be much better than Online play, I'll give ya that. But AS A WHOLE, ACROSS THE NATION, Online is not nearly as fishy as you'll see in the average B&M.

Couldn't have said it any better.

[princeof56k 0]

In my casino experiences, very rarely are the worst players young. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but for the most part the younger players are quite a bit more aware of how to play. I'm not saying they're good, but they aren't as bad as the retired guys who are there to have fun. The old guys are great to play with, they call with any pair regardless of how dangerous the board is.

I usually see the exact opposite. The old players usually show more patience and less recklessness than the younger ones. And the reason they call with any pair on a dangerous board (usually when the pot is large) is because theyve seen from experience people bluff almost at will. Dont knock the old folks.And the extreme young kids arent that bad either. But they do have a tendency to be over agressive and think they know everything.The worst people at the table usually come from about the 40 year old age group (although the age group as a whole is pretty good). My theory, either they made enough money already and are now checking out the good life, or they are hitting some wierd mid-life crisis and actually think poker is the way to a rich life and hot young girls.

[Diabolical 0]

then let's just agree to 'disagree". HahahahaahhaCause i'm not convinced by what your sayin.And like I said,........... I can prove your wrong by playin you myself.okbut would you agree with this?I love women!!!!!!! I love them sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much!!There so sexy!! They look so good cause.............. well ............ thats there job.Do you love women as much as I do?

[Diabolical 0]

In my casino experiences, very rarely are the worst players young. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but for the most part the younger players are quite a bit more aware of how to play. I'm not saying they're good, but they aren't as bad as the retired guys who are there to have fun. The old guys are great to play with, they call with any pair regardless of how dangerous the board is.

I usually see the exact opposite. The old players usually show more patience and less recklessness than the younger ones. And the reason they call with any pair on a dangerous board (usually when the pot is large) is because theyve seen from experience people bluff almost at will. Dont knock the old folks.And the extreme young kids arent that bad either. But they do have a tendency to be over agressive and think they know everything.The worst people at the table usually come from about the 40 year old age group (although the age group as a whole is pretty good). My theory, either they made enough money already and are now checking out the good life, or they are hitting some wierd mid-life crisis and actually think poker is the way to a rich life and hot young girls.

I agree with you about the old players....................... I never wrote thatYou have put those words in my mouth.I probably messed up the quote from another and it looked like I wrote that. Sorry. I'm not much of a typer. I can play poker well though 8) 8) :wink:

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

then let's just agree to 'disagree". HahahahaahhaCause i'm not convinced by what your sayin.And like I said,........... I can prove your wrong by playin you myself.

:wall: ..Seriously. What are you talking about?I'm not an online player. I've never said I play online. I never said you were a bad player. I don't get what point you're going to prove by playing me yourself. Besides, I've allready given you the terms I'm willing to play you HU with.You may very well be a better player than I am, that's fine. I'd believe it. But, you've made absolutely no point as to why Live is less fishy than Online, other than to say, the best players at Commerce are very, very good. Well, no shit.They're also better than 95% of everyone else who plays live. They're better than 95% of Online players. Your sample size is NOT representative of LIVE PLAY AS A WHOLE.

[Limit Player 0]

When I went out to Vegas, some retired Navy vet wanted to kill me. I raised preflop UTG in a 3/6 game and then cr''ed him on the turn when my KK made a set. His words?"You had a lot of nerve raising me with just kings."me: I take chances.Yeah, the rest of the board was 9 4 3. Some nerve.B&M is where you make a killing off the fish. Online is just where you play more and build your roll....for most of us, anyway. If I didn't live 2 1/2 hours from Foxwoods I'd be there more often. I hate driving, though.

[Limit Player 0]

In my casino experiences, very rarely are the worst players young. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but for the most part the younger players are quite a bit more aware of how to play. I'm not saying they're good, but they aren't as bad as the retired guys who are there to have fun. The old guys are great to play with, they call with any pair regardless of how dangerous the board is.

I usually see the exact opposite. The old players usually show more patience and less recklessness than the younger ones. And the reason they call with any pair on a dangerous board (usually when the pot is large) is because theyve seen from experience people bluff almost at will. Dont knock the old folks.And the extreme young kids arent that bad either. But they do have a tendency to be over agressive and think they know everything.The worst people at the table usually come from about the 40 year old age group (although the age group as a whole is pretty good). My theory, either they made enough money already and are now checking out the good life, or they are hitting some wierd mid-life crisis and actually think poker is the way to a rich life and hot young girls.

I agree with you about the old players....................... I never wrote thatYou have put those words in my mouth.I probably messed up the quote from another and it looked like I wrote that. Sorry. I'm not much of a typer. I can play poker well though 8) 8) :wink:

you might be able to play poker, but you can't debate for s***.

[princeof56k 0]

In my casino experiences, very rarely are the worst players young. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but for the most part the younger players are quite a bit more aware of how to play. I'm not saying they're good, but they aren't as bad as the retired guys who are there to have fun. The old guys are great to play with, they call with any pair regardless of how dangerous the board is.

I usually see the exact opposite. The old players usually show more patience and less recklessness than the younger ones. And the reason they call with any pair on a dangerous board (usually when the pot is large) is because theyve seen from experience people bluff almost at will. Dont knock the old folks.And the extreme young kids arent that bad either. But they do have a tendency to be over agressive and think they know everything.The worst people at the table usually come from about the 40 year old age group (although the age group as a whole is pretty good). My theory, either they made enough money already and are now checking out the good life, or they are hitting some wierd mid-life crisis and actually think poker is the way to a rich life and hot young girls.

I agree with you about the old players....................... I never wrote thatYou have put those words in my mouth.I probably messed up the quote from another and it looked like I wrote that. Sorry. I'm not much of a typer. I can play poker well though 8) 8) :wink:

lol thats what happened. It was actually joball33 that said that. Learn how to quote damn it :-)

[Limit Player 0]

In my casino experiences, very rarely are the worst players young. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but for the most part the younger players are quite a bit more aware of how to play. I'm not saying they're good, but they aren't as bad as the retired guys who are there to have fun. The old guys are great to play with, they call with any pair regardless of how dangerous the board is.

I usually see the exact opposite. The old players usually show more patience and less recklessness than the younger ones. And the reason they call with any pair on a dangerous board (usually when the pot is large) is because theyve seen from experience people bluff almost at will. Dont knock the old folks.And the extreme young kids arent that bad either. But they do have a tendency to be over agressive and think they know everything.The worst people at the table usually come from about the 40 year old age group (although the age group as a whole is pretty good). My theory, either they made enough money already and are now checking out the good life, or they are hitting some wierd mid-life crisis and actually think poker is the way to a rich life and hot young girls.

I agree with you....though at low limits in a casino there's no one I 'mind' since they all suck in different ways. I'll tell you what I don't like. A few times in Vegas, some of the dealers sat down to play after their shift was over, and they were calling the floor manager on players who obviously didn't know how to play.Example: One young kid just raised everything, called everything. This dealer keeps coming at him in a hand where there are three spades on the flop. River brings a spade. Dealer flips over J-10 of spades. Kid turns over the A of spades and fires his other card into the muck. Dealer claims the pot as his own since the kid didn't show both cards. All the other players protest - dealer calls the floor manager and whines. Floor manager is diplomatic. Says the table can vote to let kid have it, or chop the pot. We voted for the kid and then left the dealer sitting alone.

[joball33 0]

I usually see the exact opposite. The old players usually show more patience and less recklessness than the younger ones. And the reason they call with any pair on a dangerous board (usually when the pot is large) is because theyve seen from experience people bluff almost at will. Dont knock the old folks.

I'm not saying EVERY old person is like that, as I've encountered my share of rocks as well. It's just the majority of them at my local casino are loose-passive. In Vegas it was the opposite, the elderly were just as you said. Maybe the crappy old people are only are around here. <shrug>My intention of my post was not to "knock the old folks." It was in response to Diabolical's comment about how the live game fish are online players. I was just using the elderly players as an example of why I thought that comment was wrong.

[Diabolical 0]

then let's just agree to 'disagree". HahahahaahhaCause i'm not convinced by what your sayin.And like I said,........... I can prove your wrong by playin you myself.

:wall: ..Seriously. What are you talking about?I'm not an online player. I've never said I play online. I never said you were a bad player. I don't get what point you're going to prove by playing me yourself. Besides, I've allready given you the terms I'm willing to play you HU with.You may very well be a better player than I am, that's fine. I'd believe it. But, you've made absolutely no point as to why Live is less fishy than Online, other than to say, the best players at Commerce are very, very good. Well, no shit.They're also better than 95% of everyone else who plays live. They're better than 95% of Online players. Your sample size is NOT representative of LIVE PLAY AS A WHOLE.

who the fuuuuuk said that commerce is where the very good players are?I mentioned that the 3/6 game is a place where some good players are at. But commerce is like party poker.................... all the wannabe pro poker players go there. There are alot of card rooms out here my arguing friend. I'm tryin to peacefully move on from this but your makin it incredibly difficultAre you drunk......................... and if so..................... how come you didn't invite.Stingy motha fuuuuuuka!!!!!!

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

This conversation is over.You're obviously incapable of having a real conversation or debate.You've made absolutely no point anywhere in this conversation. We are all dumber for having listened to you. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[navybuttons 15]

sorry diabolical i have to disagree with you about commerce having good players.O8 6/12 at commerce is an effin joke. i mean these people are BAD.$100 NLHE at commerce is weird. someone will call nearly any hand.3/6 LHE at commerce is probably a bigger grind because some really know how to play.i agree that 4/8 to 8/16 players are crazy but that game is so easily beaten. wait for a set and you'll get action all the way. yes there is more variance in that game but in the long run you should kill it. the stud players are decent at best but not terrible.play the similar stakes online and not even commerce can compete.l.a. IS, without a doubt, the poker capital of the world. id bet a soul at 2:1 that it is.

[Diabolical 0]

This conversation is over.You're obviously incapable of having a real conversation or debate.You've made absolutely no point anywhere in this conversation. We are all dumber for having listened to you. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

your a fool. No wonder. You like to eat alluminum.I think your jus tryin to be a priiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiik.I saw you mentioned that you don't play online.I wonder how long you have played poker?How old are you?And it seems that you are not talkin from experience.

[Diabolical 0]

sorry diabolical i have to disagree with you about commerce having good players.O8 6/12 at commerce is an effin joke. i mean these people are BAD.$100 NLHE at commerce is weird. someone will call nearly any hand.3/6 LHE at commerce is probably a bigger grind because some really know how to play.i agree that 4/8 to 8/16 players are crazy but that game is so easily beaten. wait for a set and you'll get action all the way. yes there is more variance in that game but in the long run you should kill it. the stud players are decent at best but not terrible.play the similar stakes online and not even commerce can compete.l.a. IS, without a doubt, the poker capital of the world. id bet a soul at 2:1 that it is.

I agree with this. heh.scroll up bro. I jus mentioned that commerce is like party poker.I haven't had a drink today. But I really feel like one now.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

If by being a prick you mean, presenting an argument that you can't make a case against, then sure, I'm a prick.All I ever asked is that you give me some reason for saying that Online is fishier and you can't. Who's the real fool? I mean, not that nearly everyone on this thread, or the actual poll agrees with me, but, you know.All I asked was for you to give me one good reason, and you can't. I don't know why this became some huge confrontation for you. Or why you needed to challenge me to a HU freezeout. Or why it is you can't back up any statement you've made. Kinda weird, really.

[Diabolical 0]

If by being a prick you mean, presenting an argument that you can't make a case against, then sure, I'm a prick.All I ever asked is that you give me some reason for saying that Online is fishier and you can't. Who's the real fool? I mean, not that nearly everyone on this thread, or the actual poll agrees with me, but, you know.All I asked was for you to give me one good reason, and you can't. I don't know why this became some huge confrontation for you. Or why you needed to challenge me to a HU freezeout. Or why it is you can't back up any statement you've made. Kinda weird, really.

your silly you have to be kidding!!what the hell is goin on in Iowa that you act this way. ONE REASON:because online players do not have the reading skills of Live players. Because of this, they are not "complete poker players"

[Diabolical 0]

I was just watchin "The Texas Chainsaw Massacure".Man.............. them people are some scary motha ****aas.I think i'll drive right through Des Moines and hit the next state before I get out of my car

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

If by being a prick you mean, presenting an argument that you can't make a case against, then sure, I'm a prick.All I ever asked is that you give me some reason for saying that Online is fishier and you can't. Who's the real fool? I mean, not that nearly everyone on this thread, or the actual poll agrees with me, but, you know.All I asked was for you to give me one good reason, and you can't. I don't know why this became some huge confrontation for you. Or why you needed to challenge me to a HU freezeout. Or why it is you can't back up any statement you've made. Kinda weird, really.

your silly you have to be kidding!!what the hell is goin on in Iowa that you act this way. ONE REASON:because online players do not have the reading skills of Live players. Because of this, they are not "complete poker players"

Hey, your first half way logical argument in this thread. I'm proud of you. Online players don't need to "read" players. There's plenty of information through betting pattern, and that Poker Tracker thing, that you can get a good enough idea of who's bluffing anyway. Online players need to "read" players about the same way me and you "need" to four table 3/6 tables live. We just don't need it. As for the way I'm acting, I still don't get what you're talking about. I don't know how I've managed to annoy/offend/piss you off, but, really I don't care at this point.

[greenchris 0]

First off, I live in LA and play a variety of LHE at the local casinos.Here's what I playHawaiian - 8/16 Kill or 15/30Bike - 20/40Commerce - 20/40Hollywood Park - 6/12 or 15/30When I play online here's what I playParty - 5/10UB - 3/6Reason I lower my limits online as compared to live...IMO, not as many fish online (as compared to the total number of players). I would not say this for all the sites, I would definitely say that Party is the fishiest IMO, while I find the 3/6 and 5/10 limits over at UB are solid, generally players are tough over at UB (anyone else have the same observation of UB?). It's tough to find a fish at UB. Anyone that thinks otherwise, please PM some names of some fish over at UB, because for the life of me I can't find any. Once in a while on a Saturday afternoon a fish will show up...the weekend warrior! Other than that, when I play online during the week at UB for the most part I can't find a fish for the life of me, and end up getting frustrated and playing more passive than I reguarly would.I'm going to let some of the SoCal heads in on a little secret...My favorite live game....ahh, the 6/12 at Hollywood. Best time...when the horse races are on (Wednesday through Sunday afternoons). The place is a dump (make sure you eat before you go, the food sucks), but that place is packed with fish. I usually prefer higher limits elsewhere, but mix in horse racing with poker, and you've got yourself a fine recipe for fish stew...GUARANTEED! You watch these guys try to handicap the horses while playing poker...That's one of the softest games in town.When I go to Vegas I hear people saying how crazy the LA poker players are...I tend to agree with them, especially when comparing it to the people that play these same limits in Vegas.Anyways, to answer the question....Fishier live

[Diabolical 0]

maybe the way i write makes you think i'm madnot true thoughI'm smiling while i read your post but I can't understand why you have so much hostilityok, and about the reading ability that online players "don't" need. How can you call someone a good "poker player" when they lack reading human behavior and stuff like that BECAUSE they rely on software programs?I don't use PT or anything. But I have observed that those that do are handicapped when they play live. Because they lack those skills.hmmmmmmmmmmmm I guesse what i'm trying to convey to you is; If you take online players out of the web, And you take Live players out of the casinos. Have them play together and the Live players would dominate.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

First off, I live in LA and play a variety of LHE at the local casinos.Here's what I playHawaiian - 8/16 Kill or 15/30Bike - 20/40Commerce - 20/40Hollywood Park - 6/12 or 15/30When I play online here's what I playParty - 5/10UB - 3/6Reason I lower my limits online as compared to live...IMO, not as many fish online (as compared to the total number of players). I would not say this for all the sites, I would definitely say that Party is the fishiest IMO, while I find the 3/6 and 5/10 limits over at UB are solid, generally players are tough over at UB (anyone else have the same observation of UB?). It's tough to find a fish at UB. Anyone that thinks otherwise, please PM some names of some fish over at UB, because for the life of me I can't find any. Once in a while on a Saturday afternoon a fish will show up...the weekend warrior! Other than that, when I play online during the week at UB for the most part I can't find a fish for the life of me, and end up getting frustrated and playing more passive than I reguarly would.I'm going to let some of the SoCal heads in on a little secret...My favorite live game....ahh, the 6/12 at Hollywood. Best time...when the horse races are on (Wednesday through Sunday afternoons). The place is a dump (make sure you eat before you go, the food sucks), but that place is packed with fish. I usually prefer higher limits elsewhere, but mix in horse racing with poker, and you've got yourself a fine recipe for fish stew...GUARANTEED! You watch these guys try to handicap the horses while playing poker...That's one of the softest games in town.When I go to Vegas I hear people saying how crazy the LA poker players are...I tend to agree with them, especially when comparing it to the people that play these same limits in Vegas.Anyways, to answer the question....Fishier live

Good post, Chris.Thanks. That pretty much sums it up. Most everyone I know who plays poker online and live plays higher limits live for the reasons you've said. Chris, post in the strategy sections, we can always use people like you.

[greenchris 0]

ok, and about the reading ability that online players "don't" need. How can you call someone a good "poker player" when they lack reading human behavior and stuff like that BECAUSE they rely on software programs?I don't use PT or anything. But I have observed that those that do are handicapped when they play live. Because they lack those skills.

I disagree. I use PT online, and I would say that it has definitely helped my live poker play. I am able to classify players (similar to how PT has the various classes for players) a certain way based on my observations/read on a player, and I try to exploit a weakness in their play. PT has helped me do this with my live play, and overall has greatly improved my live play, including my accuracy on my reads of a player. It has not handicapped my live play at all.

[Diabolical 0]

strategy is for lames who don't understand that every situation is differentIf your a new player, I would agree to check strategy out to get a feel of the game. But if you have been playin thousands upon thousands of hands, strategy is a place where players like there egos stroked.Study Human Behavior.There should be a "Human Behavior" section