two various hands i'd like ripped apart permitting

[belatropic 0]

In this example "its not a bad beat...I just was beat by someone holding two cards 88 that I thought had less odds of happening due to my Q8. I also thought the same about the Q since I'm holding a Q. By the way, the third player (who folded) whoud have beat me at the turn anyway. Should I not have gone at this guy with his big re-raise or did I do everything correct. :shock: 200 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, December 20, 03:03:47 EDT 2005Table Table 69113 (Real Money)Seat 3 is the buttonTotal number of players : 9 8) Seat 3: Belahoya ( $251.80 ) 8) Seat 5: DanVeaudry ( $431.89 )Seat 6: AbsAces ( $345 )Seat 8: MrTinyGrump ( $182.25 )Seat 9: Agonndy2002 ( $187 )Seat 4: YaBoyPreston ( $211.20 )Seat 2: windfall717 ( $270.60 )Seat 10: mattbowman ( $230.90 )Seat 1: Jr__Pounder ( $204.58 )YaBoyPreston posts small blind [$1].DanVeaudry posts big blind [$2].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to Belahoya [ 8d Qh ]AbsAces folds.MrTinyGrump calls [$2].Agonndy2002 calls [$2].mattbowman calls [$2].Jr__Pounder folds.windfall717 calls [$2].Belahoya calls [$2].YaBoyPreston calls [$1].DanVeaudry checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, 8s, 2c ]YaBoyPreston checks.DanVeaudry checks.Tell a friend about PartyPoker.com and earn $50 & 1000 Party Points. Your friend receives $25!NEW TO PARTYPOKER? Sign up to our Players Club! You will only earn points once you have signed up. Please go to the "MY ACCOUNT" section on the website to register.MrTinyGrump checks.Agonndy2002 checks.mattbowman bets [$10].windfall717 folds.Belahoya calls [$10].YaBoyPreston folds.DanVeaudry folds.MrTinyGrump raises [$35].Agonndy2002 folds.mattbowman: nbmattbowman folds.Belahoya raises [$90].MrTinyGrump is all-In [$145.25]Belahoya calls [$80.25].** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]** Dealing River ** [ 2d ]Belahoya shows [ 8d, Qh ] two pairs, queens and eights.MrTinyGrump shows [ 8c, 8h ] a full house, Eights full of twos.MrTinyGrump wins $381.50 from the main pot with a full house, Eights full of twos.Game #3232027483 starts.

[Chief 0]

fold preflop

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Well, by raising to 90, you've pretty much guaranteed you're only going to get called by a set. I prefer the smooth call and reevaluate on the turn. You could've got away from this on the turn, I think, with the Ace coming. Read the, "Playing three pair..response requested thread." It talks about stuff like this a little bit.

[Chief 0]

ok belahoya calls the reraise on the flop..turn is an Ace.1.belahoya betstiny grump raisesbelahoya foldsor2.belahoya checkstiny grump betsbelahoya raisestiny grump reraisesbelahoya foldshow do you get away from this easier? door #2?

[gates1026 0]

I dont think it is an easy lay down, but when the raise comes off after the flop I am thinking that there is a good possibility that I am beat. The possibilities:- A set (QQ or 88)- The player is overbetting his AQ Once the turn comes A I am getting worried that an AQ makes two pair. This situation all depends on the context of the table. If it is a loose table making big bets routinely, I would be more inclined to call and see how the river card plays itself out. I would be on guard either way.-- Ryan

[macphec 0]

fold preflop

[Scott3705 0]

fold preflop, but given how this happens how do we get away from this? And are you guys really looking to get away from this? All that can beat us a is a set. yes, he may release this on the turn when the Ace pops, but for the wrong reason. Are we looking to fold to a set here?

[fopkins 0]

This thread is SO useless. FOLD PREFLOP!I mean cmon guys, Q8 offsuit?? Why even waste your time writing out responses to people like this. These people are the ones we make the majority of our money from.-fop

[ChuckSty 0]

merry deathmas everybody.

[ChuckSty 0]

merry deathmas everybody.

lol, wrong thread fold preflop but say you somehow found yourself with this hand you bet flop and reraise if raised and see where i stood. probably fold on the turn when the big reraise comes.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

Maybe Q8o is just part of the random trash that 85% of the hands in hold'em are.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Maybe Q8o is just part of the random trash that 85% of the hands in hold'em are.

Um, TJ.I know you're pretty new, so I'm gonna explain this to you.Q8 is a favorite over a random hand.That's all.

[petersun 0]

Well, he is on the button =) And Q8 is technically a connector =)With that being said, you still fold pre-flop =)

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

[pokerplayer24 0]

fold preflop

One you flop top 2 I think its difficult to get away from.

[belatropic 0]

This thread is SO useless. FOLD PREFLOP!I mean cmon guys, Q8 offsuit?? Why even waste your time writing out responses to people like this. These people are the ones we make the majority of our money from.-fop

Fopkins,Thanks for answering all my questions on this site...I welcomed & wanted ALL advice. I think coming into a pot (from the button) getting 6 to 1 odds for the minimum bet is at the very least a reasonable play. I try to loosen/vary my play in later positions & thought this call was fine from my position. I obviously screwed the pooch post flop & just wanted some input in this area. I’d be interested in knowing your calling requirements from the button with a bunch of limpers?Thanks again

[belatropic 0]

The internets anonymity does turn lard into butter.

[fopkins 0]

This thread is SO useless. FOLD PREFLOP!I mean cmon guys, Q8 offsuit?? Why even waste your time writing out responses to people like this. These people are the ones we make the majority of our money from.-fop

Fopkins,Thanks for answering all my questions on this site...I welcomed & wanted ALL advice. I think coming into a pot (from the button) getting 6 to 1 odds for the minimum bet is at the very least a reasonable play. I try to loosen/vary my play in later positions & thought this call was fine from my position. I obviously screwed the pooch post flop & just wanted some input in this area. I’d be interested in knowing your calling requirements from the button with a bunch of limpers?Thanks again

Read a book.-fop

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

This thread is SO useless.  FOLD PREFLOP!I mean cmon guys, Q8 offsuit?? Why even waste your time writing out responses to people like this.  These people are the ones we make the majority of our money from.-fop

Fopkins,Thanks for answering all my questions on this site...I welcomed & wanted ALL advice. I think coming into a pot (from the button) getting 6 to 1 odds for the minimum bet is at the very least a reasonable play. I try to loosen/vary my play in later positions & thought this call was fine from my position. I obviously screwed the pooch post flop & just wanted some input in this area. I’d be interested in knowing your calling requirements from the button with a bunch of limpers?Thanks again

Belatropic..I think the point fopkins was trying to make, in, not such a polite manner, is that, playing bad hands forces you to make tough decisions. Even in positiong Q8 is dominated by a ton of hands and is just better off folded. You might've been able to get away from it on the turn, but once you committed yourself to it on the flop, you had to see it through.I apologize on behalf of the jackalopes who thought it was appropriate to flame you on this thread.. Keep posting hands you have trouble with.

[belatropic 0]

This thread is SO useless.  FOLD PREFLOP!I mean cmon guys, Q8 offsuit?? Why even waste your time writing out responses to people like this.  These people are the ones we make the majority of our money from.-fop

Fopkins,Thanks for answering all my questions on this site...I welcomed & wanted ALL advice. I think coming into a pot (from the button) getting 6 to 1 odds for the minimum bet is at the very least a reasonable play. I try to loosen/vary my play in later positions & thought this call was fine from my position. I obviously screwed the pooch post flop & just wanted some input in this area. I’d be interested in knowing your calling requirements from the button with a bunch of limpers?Thanks again

Belatropic..I think the point fopkins was trying to make, in, not such a polite manner, is that, playing bad hands forces you to make tough decisions. Even in positiong Q8 is dominated by a ton of hands and is just better off folded. You might've been able to get away from it on the turn, but once you committed yourself to it on the flop, you had to see it through.I apologize on behalf of the jackalopes who thought it was appropriate to flame you on this thread.. Keep posting hands you have trouble with.

Hey Double-D,Thanks for taking the time to critique the hands/play & doing it just like you would do in person. I understand that playing hands like these force tougher plays post flop & should just be folded. No need to apologize... I believe all questions are good questions when asked once. It’s only the answers that are stupid.From DN’s Blog:I understand some people are trying to make a living playing, and I respect that. But do you have to be a total jizzbag doing it? With the almost unlimited amount of players on the web, I can see it. But if you go to Vegas or a local card game and act like that, don't be surprised when somebody meets you out back and kicks the shit out of you.

[gates1026 0]

Don't get discouraged with people who respond to a post in a not so great manner. Believe it or not, everyone had to start somewhere. I hope you keep posting and improving your game. As to the original post, you were getting the odds to play just about any two cards at 6/1 odds. I like DrawingDeadInDM's thought that playing these cards will force you to make a tough decision on how to continue with the hand. Because the odds were so favorable to you, everyone else is also getting the propper odds to play just about any two cards out there.I would recomend that you just toss this hand like a few people have before. If you like the cards and position well enough to play, you are just going to have to be prepared to take a bad beat or two. -- Ryan

[fopkins 0]

As to the original post, you were getting the odds to play just about any two cards at 6/1 odds.

Wrong.

If you like the cards and position well enough to play, you are just going to have to be prepared to take a bad beat or two.

How is this a bad beat?Sorry if I have been harsh on this post, but this was the 4th post I looked at on the strategy forum where the proper move was to fold preflop, and it was pretty obvious. Keep posting hands, but please read some books before doing so.-fop

[gates1026 0]

Wrong.

How is that wrong. Even Q8 against AA is about a 4/1 underdog. You are getting 6/1 on your money. If you were a 4/1 dog to make a flush that will win you the hand and you stand to make 6/1 on your money, are you going to fold? That would be a wrong play.If you read my post, I believe that I mention that I think the play is to fold. Don't belittle someone who makes a play other than what you belive to be right. Poker is not a game that you should play by looking up starting hands in a book, poker is a game of situations.My 2 cents worth.-- Ryan

[iggymcfly 0]

Well, the last post was the worst interpretation of odds I've ever seen. Sure, if you were in for $2 in the big blind, and someone goes all-in for $3, you have odds to call with any two cards at 5:1.However, going against the whole field, your odds are much lower and may be as low as 10:1 or 20:1. You can't just say you have the right odds to play against five hands because you have the odds to play against one hand.Now with that being said, you're not necessarily wrong that you can play a mediocre hand like Q-8 on the button in this situation. This play works fine if you think you can outplay your opponents postflop.In this hand, however you did no such thing. By cold-calling and then re-raising a check-raiser, you're killing your action against any hand you have beat, and then making sure you lose your whole stack if you're up against a set. I think that even a hand like KK would have a hard time calling you down after all the strength you've represented.You have position in this hand, so use it. Tinygrump has shown a lot of strength this far, and is willing to bet the hand so let him. Just call the bet on the flop, and reevaluate on the turn. If he comes out strong again when the ace hits, then he obviously doesn't have KK or KQ, and you can give yourself a chance to let the hand go.At the very least, by slowing things down, you'll make sure to get paid off by AQ the 90% of the time the ace doesn't hit, and if your opponent shows any passivity on the scare card (scary for his opponents, not for him), then you might save part of your stack.Honestly, though, if you that reraising that hand is the best move on the flop, then you have no business playing any marginal hands whatsoever. If you don't have an edge preflop, then don't play because after the flop, you'll just be giving value to your opponents.

[gates1026 0]

I wasn't trying to represent the fact that you are even a 20% favorite against multiple hands. I was trying to point out that even against the best possible starting hand for your oposition.......6/1 odds could still warrent a limp. I am not saying that it is a play I would want to make.If I am wrong with something I say, tell me why. People are quick to insult around here......