can you not go broke here? dn pls respond,

[case ace 0]

DN pls respond, FYI: I'm not that guy who thinks DN spends his life reading this forum and responds to every post requesting his advice. BUT, i'm think about making this thread a part of my next gutshot article and would like to quote/hear his input. So Daniel, it would be really groovy if you could give your input. I'll plug the site in my article! :-) So....8 people left in a single table sng. Started with 800. now at 1600. i'm in 2nd.i have KK UTG 1600 in chips, i raise from 30 to 1001 caller behind meflop:358 two clubs. i bet 200 he callsturn: q spades and i have to bet, since i'm im out of position and he couldn't of hit his draw. i fire 450. another smooth call. river is a 9 of clubs. now im very concerned i am either beat by a flopped set or he just hit a big drawing hand, and he is a quasi-live-one so he could be calling me the whole way with j10 suited.i try to bet enough to hope that he can't reraise me with a bluff or aq, so i don't have to sacrifice all my chips if he pushes.i bet another 500 hoping to get a cheap showdown. he puts me all in for another 300 ish and i have to call since there is a slight possibility he has aq and it's 300 to win 3000.I call he turns over a set of flopped threes which was well played (except maybe for the preflop call that early in position, well... what the he11 he was the chip leader )Can any of you not go broke on this hand? I really can't figure it out, esp since i was OUT OF POSITIONHow could you come away with chips left?EDIT:Also, i was playing a $50 table i still don't see a way around it at $100 or $200. i MIGHT check/cry call the river as i would definitly not the the smooth call as a draw call on the turn. But i REALLY think i would play it the same. It's too many chips to look like your giving up on the pot. Any thouhgts on the buy in? I dont' think the buy in should effect this hand, there is odd play at all levels. (Some of DNs opponents in the hands he write about are just as wild.)

[Pupsta 0]

you have 2 options...play it correctly and go broke, which it sounds like you did, or make an 'excellent fold preflop" since you knew you'd be beaten

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

check fold the river.

[Pupsta 0]

check fold the river.

yeah, do this if you detest money

[nell789 0]

What buy was this? If it's reletively low, you have to go broke everytime, there's just too many donks who will pay you off with A8, 1010, AQ, etc. etc.

[case ace 0]

check fold the river.

i was thinking about that. But, IMO, it was a certainty he would push if i checked. I would look too weak, and there was already 1600 in the pot. My bet there was to get a cheap showdown against a smaller flush, and i felt if i bet less he still could have tried to make a move on me.but that probably is the only way to loose less chips. A call that big on the turn is less of a draw call and more of a trap call, but he was deep stacked so its tough to read. Does anyone else agree to check/fold? I think it is just too weak.

[Pupsta 0]

What buy was this? If it's reletively low, you have to go broke everytime, there's just too many donks who will pay you off with A8, 1010, AQ, etc. etc.

buyin should never ever dictate your play here, because donks make these plays at any limits.

[case ace 0]

What buy was this? If it's reletively low, you have to go broke everytime, there's just too many donks who will pay you off with A8, 1010, AQ, etc. etc.

10/20/30/50 i agree.edit:sorryi was playing a $30but i still don't see a way around it. At 100 or 200 i MIGHT check/cry call the river as i would definitly not the the smotth call as a draw call on the turn. But i REALLY think i would play it the same. It's too many chips to look like your giving up on the pot.

[Pokerghost2 0]

i think u have to get broke there.

[edub10304 0]

FYI: I'm not that guy who thinks DN spends his life reading this forum and responds to every post requesting his advice. BUT, i'm think about making this thread a part of my next gutshot article and would like to quote/hear his input. So Daniel, it would be really groovy if you could give your input. I'll plug the site in my article! Yet you ask anyway!Kinda like......I dont usually pay for sex, but tonight i will!dub

[case ace 0]

FYI: I'm not that guy who thinks DN spends his life reading this forum and responds to every post requesting his advice. BUT, i'm think about making this thread a part of my next gutshot article and would like to quote/hear his input. So Daniel, it would be really groovy if you could give your input. I'll plug the site in my article! Yet you ask anyway!Kinda like......I dont usually pay for sex, but tonight i will!dub

kindahere's why.BUT, i'm think about making this thread a part of my next gutshot article and would like to quote/hear his input. i just want to seem cool in the article to my friends :oops:

[macphec 0]

I'm not sure why you HAVE to go broke here. The most obvious draw got there on the river. What range did you put him on?Early in a sng it is easier to check fold the river IMO

[Abbaddabba 0]

Raise more preflop. (you raised 2.3x the bb)Dont underbet the pot on the flop. (you bet 200 into a pot of 245)

[Guest]

Smash isn't around to say it...push preflopgood luck.

[Pupsta 0]

I'm not sure why you HAVE to go broke here. The most obvious draw got there on the river. What range did you put him on?Early in a sng it is easier to check fold the river IMO

sure, if the ace of clubs hits, it's possible to check/fold this, but you can't automatically assume that he has clubs and you're beaten.you have to go broke here in a $50 sng.

[blazerp0410 0]

IMO once he calls the 450 you are pretty much toast, nevermind the fact that one fear of your was the draw that hit on the river. By check folding the river you'd still have $800ish left to play with and that would be the best way to go.

[KowboyKoop 0]

FYI: I'm not that guy who thinks DN spends his life reading this forum and responds to every post requesting his advice. BUT, i'm think about making this thread a part of my next gutshot article and would like to quote/hear his input. So Daniel, it would be really groovy if you could give your input. I'll plug the site in my article! Yet you ask anyway!Kinda like......I dont usually pay for sex, but tonight i will!dub

I always pay for sex. My girlfriend thinks it's pretty kinky.

[swahnroger 0]

check fold the river.

i was thinking about that. But, IMO, it was a certainty he would push if i checked. I would look too weak, and there was already 1600 in the pot. My bet there was to get a cheap showdown against a smaller flush, and i felt if i bet less he still could have tried to make a move on me.but that probably is the only way to loose less chips. A call that big on the turn is less of a draw call and more of a trap call, but he was deep stacked so its tough to read. Does anyone else agree to check/fold? I think it is just too weak.

I don't quite buy it.We seem to agree on that you didn't play this wrong. But at the same time you were 2nd in chips, and the blinds weren't exactly killing you. It just seems a little too negative to be thinking you "have to" go broke here, just cos the guy flopped a set. You were out of position and thus, mayby you could have check-folded the turn. Yes, it would have been weak. But you also wouldn't have gone broke.

[BeanGW 0]

Case:Haven't read all of the responses, but here are a couple of thoughts.Until the blinds get very large compared to chip stacks, I always preflop raise to at least 3x the BB as a minimum.I'd overbet the pot on the flop. I like to make sure that if someone is going to outdraw me, they gotta pay for it. This does a couple of things. 1. A lot of times, if they've got a little set, they'll push, and you can get away from it cheaply SOMETIMES... note, with this flop it's still gonna be tough to get away from it early in a tourney w/o reads. 2. It allows you to charge the draw while the pot is still relatively small compared to your chip stack. By the turn, the pot is often times already large enough where you are committed and it's tougher to give bad odds for the draw.On the river, the way you played it, I would try a check/call. A lot of players will try to sell their flush to you by not making a huge bet, especially because your check may show that you think he hit his flush. Also, as in this case with a baby set, he's gotta be slightly concerned about the flush possibility as well, and may bet small or even check behind on occasion.

[Abbaddabba 0]

It just seems a little too negative to be thinking you "have to" go broke here, just cos the guy flopped a set. You were out of position and thus, mayby you could have check-folded the turn. Yes, it would have been weak. But you also wouldn't have gone broke.

And if he has something that you have beat or a flush draw and pushes back, you lose a large pot that otherwise would have been yours.It's easy to say that you should check/fold when they flip over a set.I dont know why anyone would be scared about looking weak at the river. I mean, if you're making a bet big enough that you have to call a raise, you're ****ed no matter what if he has a set or flush.At least if you were to check/call you get value out of bluffs.

[Abbaddabba 0]

It just seems a little too negative to be thinking you "have to" go broke here, just cos the guy flopped a set. You were out of position and thus, mayby you could have check-folded the turn. Yes, it would have been weak. But you also wouldn't have gone broke.

And if he has something that you have beat or a flush draw and pushes back, you lose a large pot that otherwise would have been yours.It's easy to say that you should check/fold when they flip over a set.I dont know why anyone would be scared about looking weak at the river. I mean, if you're making a bet big enough that you have to call a raise, you're ****ed no matter what if he has a set or flush.At least if you were to check/call you get value out of bluffs.

[ReleaseTheWolves 0]

i mean my question is how often does a single pair win in this situation? i think a check fold would have been the best play...you had to think he min raised just because either he knew you would pay him off or that he would get a cheap showdown with a lower flush......i think i would have called though

[Guest Zach6668]

Case:Until the blinds get very large compared to chip stacks, I always preflop raise to at least 3x the BB as a minimum.

Yes, this seems like a Party SNG. With the blinds at 10/15, I will routinely make it 75 to go, sometimes more when there are lots of limpers, and I usually still get 2 or 3 callers! 15/30, I have no problem making it 100 - 150 preflop. Really, it makes opponents pay for there mistakes, especially early in the SNG. Also, if you feel he missed his flop, a full pot bet is not required to take it down. You can get away with even betting 1/2 of the pot.Granted, I've only played up to the $20 level, and only a few at that level, but this works in the $5 and $10 quite well, and from what I hear, the donks are the same all the way up.Anyways, if it's me, and since I'm not exactly a pro, I would go broke here, but only because I have a severe continuation bet problem... although that river completed just about ever draw, so I don't know. Position is key in this hand.Maybe don't play KK out of position :shock: (sw)Zach

[Abbaddabba 0]

Well, there's some truth to that.Always try to be in position... but if you cant, make sure you raise enough that they arent getting the implied odds to justly call with inferior hands because you're going to be all in with just a pair, regardless of what falls.If they do call that large an amount, which they often do, then even better.

[Guest Zach6668]

Well, there's some truth to that.Always try to be in position... but if you cant, make sure you raise enough that they arent getting the implied odds to justly call with inferior hands because you're going to be all in with just a pair, regardless of what falls.If they do call that large an amount, which they often do, then even better.

Yeah, and that is why we NEED to raise more than 2.3 times the BB here, and make it very unprofitable for 33 to call here.So, in conclusion, I don't go broke here, if the guy who calls with the 33 is a decent player, and knows to fold 33 in that spot. On the other hand, if he makes the mistake of calling my larger preflop raise, then I will gladly go broke each time, because in the long run, I win.Zach