barry shulman throws a fit at the bellagio!!

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I C/P'd this from NWP, 'cause for some reason Me and the Krablar high priest have this running joke about barry shulman, and how he is the other one's "boy". Doesn't make sense, but the name "barry shulman" just makes me laugh in general, and when I say this post, I howled. Way to go barry! Class.Hi everyone. Since this place is gossip central, I decided I'd share an interesting story that occurred last night at Bellagio. You won't see this reported on cardplayer.com!I was railing my buddy at 10-20NL in the top section yesterday, when suddenly I hear a bunch of commotion at the 200-400 Limit game. I was surprised to see that the one making all the noise was none other than Cardplayer publisher Barry Shulman. Here's what happened.....Barry and some guy were going back and forth with raising some hand, and when it was all over, the other guy had a straight and Barry had 2 pair. Even though there was a flush possible, Barry bet out the river, the other guy raised, and Barry 3 bet! Barry's opponent did not see the 3 bet, so he thought Barry just called his raise, and flipped over his hand. The stupid dealer didn't bother to ask what was going on, and just grabbed the hand and threw it in the muck. At this point Barry started to scoop the pot, and the other player cried foul and said he didn't realize Barry had 3-bet, and flipping over his hand shouldn't mean it is being mucked. Barry loudly insisted that it was his pot, and a floorman was called over. Surprisingly the floorman ruled in favor of the other player. The floorman said that since the other player did indeed show down a hand, he has the opportunity to call even after the dealer grabbed it, and if Barry's hand can't beat it, the other player wins. The pot was awarded to Barry's opponent.Well Barry didn't take too kindly to this ruling and started a 10 minute shoutfest with the floorman and the floorman's supervisor, using profanity nearly every other word. To make matters worse, Barry somehow shorted the pot $800 when he gave it to the opponent, and when this was discovered, he still refused to give back the $800. He left the cardroom still owing the $800, despite the demands of the floor staff that he stay until it is settled. The Bellagio paid the guy his other $800 and they are going to collect it from Barry next time they see him. The opponent voluntarily left the game after this whole ordeal, BTW.Anyway, Barry is now banned from the Bellagio poker room until he pays up the $800. If he refuses to pay the $800 next time they see him, he will be barred for life!The other players in the game really got on Barry's case for his behavior, including stealing the $800 and the profanity filled tantrum he threw. I am not sure what to make of this ruling but Barry definitely didn't act in a mature fashion.Anyway I checked the web and didn't find any mention of this yet, so I figured NWP is the best place to have this story broken. Crazy, huh?

[blueodum 0]

Does anyone think Barry was right in the dispute? I mean, the opponent made the error and showed his hand without calling the bet. I have no idea what the rules are in this regard, but perhaps showing without calling is considered an automatic fold?They always say you have to protect your cards, and the fact that the dealer was able to scoop them into the muck means they weren't protected.Even if the ruling was incorrect, it does not excuse Barry's tirade - I hasten to add.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Does anyone think Barry was right in the dispute? I mean, the opponent made the error and showed his hand without calling the bet. I have no idea what the rules are in this regard, but perhaps showing without calling is considered an automatic fold?They always say you have to protect your cards, and the fact that the dealer was able to scoop them into the muck means they weren't protected.Even if the ruling was incorrect, it does not excuse Barry's tirade - I hasten to add.

Showing your hand doesn't mean your hand is dead. Also, if you show you head, it is, by the nature of showing it, not dead. it doesn't matter if the dealer takes it, or if it hits the muck. Once you show your hand, your hand stays..

[tswing 0]

im sure this has been asked before but i need to know, who is the girl in your pic? Thx

[TS Clark 0]

Even if a mistake was made, Shulman handled it with no class. Taking advantage of someone's else mistake in a situation like this shows little integrity.If Barry feels he was genuinely wronged in this situation, he could have discussed it calmly and proposed a solution. But trying to scoop the pot when it's clear to everyone the guy had no intention of folding, then screaming when the floorman made the reasonable and correct decision and awarded the pot to the winning hand... can you say "jackass?"This doesn't surprise anyone who reads Linda Geenan's blog about her adventures as a dealer at Bellagio. She references a "Barry" often who she has proclaimed a huge jerk that is miserable to everyone. The rumor has long been that this is Shulman.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

im sure this has been asked before but i need to know, who is the girl in your pic? Thx

Liz Liu, poker "pro"

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Even if a mistake was made, Shulman handled it with no class. Taking advantage of someone's else mistake in a situation like this shows little integrity.If Barry feels he was genuinely wronged in this situation, he could have discussed it calmly and proposed a solution. But trying to scoop the pot when it's clear to everyone the guy had no intention of folding, then screaming when the floorman made the reasonable and correct decision and awarded the pot to the winning hand... can you say "jackass?"This doesn't surprise anyone who reads Linda Geenan's blog about her adventures as a dealer at Bellagio. She references a "Barry" often who she has proclaimed a huge jerk that is miserable to everyone. The rumor has long been that this is Shulman.

No doubt.. what a shmuck...

[beans-n-icewater 18]

...

[Herr Baader 0]

im sure this has been asked before but i need to know, who is the girl in your pic? Thx

Liz Liu, poker "pro"

Not to hijack your thread (great story btw, and Shulman does sound like a total ass - I'm glad he got 86ed) but there's a decent article in the SF Chron about asian poker players w a pretty good interview w her. (And pics, too.) She's pretty cute (though a little overboard w the makeup) and sounds very cool.http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...r&sn=002&sc=996

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

im sure this has been asked before but i need to know, who is the girl in your pic? Thx

Liz Liu, poker "pro"

Not to hijack your thread (great story btw, and Shulman does sound like a total ass - I'm glad he got 86ed) but there's a decent article in the SF Chron about asian poker players w a pretty good interview w her. (And pics, too.) She's pretty cute (though a little overboard w the makeup) and sounds very cool.http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...=002&sc=996

buddy, any time you want to hijack my thread with a comment about liz, have at it..

[GoldenTee 0]

im sure this has been asked before but i need to know, who is the girl in your pic? Thx

I guess you don't go to pokerpages often!

[navybuttons 15]

i think barry had a more than legitamite claim. if you show your hand to a player who still has chips then your hand should be dead. if your cards touch the much without the dealer declaring you as the winner then your hand should be dead. i've noticed lately that there have been a lot of sympathetic rullings by floormen often ruling for what feels 'right' when in fact it goes against the rules of poker.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

i think barry had a more than legitamite claim. if you show your hand to a player who still has chips then your hand should be dead. if your cards touch the much without the dealer declaring you as the winner then your hand should be dead. i've noticed lately that there have been a lot of sympathetic rullings by floormen often ruling for what feels 'right' when in fact it goes against the rules of poker.

have yo uplayed in a live card room? In most I've played at, neither of these are the case. You can't expose your hand to one player, if another is in the hand.. if your hand becomes exposed, all people in the hand have a right to see what you've exposed, but it doesn't kill the hand. Lots of players will show their hand to someone, when thinking about a call, to get a read..Also, if you show your hand, fold it open, it doesn't matter if it gets mucked, as long as it was shown. Cards speak.

[navybuttons 15]

you can't show your hand to get a read on a player. youre not even supposed to tell him directly what you have. that is if he still you and he still have chips and he has not put you all in. i could be wrong but i've played probably 20hrs a week at a live casino for the last 5 yrs and i've seen hands similar to the one described. i was playing 4/8 stud at commerce and a dealer accidentally misread a guys hand and mucked it but because others had seen it they gave it to him but i don't think that's the same as not calling a bet and tabling a hand. having it mucked and then taking your cards back. mucked cards are mucked cards. this is exactly the kind of thinking that i'm talking about when floormen make the wrong call.

[navybuttons 15]

i just thought of two scenarios. 1: guy tables his hand actually meaning to fold dealer mucks then barry shows that the other guy folded the winning hand and the guy pulls his cards out and says that he disn't see the bet and declares himself as the winner.2: barry sees that the dealer mucked the other guys hands his cards hit and mix in the muck and now he can say that he had the flush. both scenarios are open to interpretation which is not what poker should be about. it should be cut and dry and this ruling is not.in a side note i think that barry wrote an article about just this sort of thing in cardplayer maybe a year or a year and a half ago. in the article (if he wrote it) he claimed an increase in this sort of thing that made him write the article. it was probably this very frustration that caused him to act the way he did (if this story is true). i don't claim that my beliefs are absolute truth because i've noticed that different floormen rule differently and to say that there is one absolute rule is false but this is my impression of the rules of poker. luv.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

I've got to go into my bag of old-school cutdowns.Someone needs to call the "wahhhhhh-bulence."Or I could pull a stewie and say something like "I bet if he was a dog he would be a chi-wah-wah"

[The Enforcer 0]

The floorman clearly made the correct decision. First, showing a hand does not mean its dead. Second, and more importantly, a floorman's job is to interpret a situation and rule in the interest of fairness.By looking a the situation, I think all poker players would agree that the player was obviously not going to fold his straight for one more bet. That is clear. Therefore, the ruling should be made in his favor.Bottom line: Barry Shulman is a bum who tried to take advantage of another players small mistake. He is classless and dishonest. Furtermore, by refusing to pay the man his $800, Barry is a thief.What a douche

[blueodum 0]

Does the situation change if the opponent, thinking Barry called, shows his hand and HIMSELF throws it in the muck? I would think that Barry should take the pot under these circumstances.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

you can't show your hand to get a read on a player. youre not even supposed to tell him directly what you have. that is if he still you and he still have chips and he has not put you all in. i could be wrong but i've played probably 20hrs a week at a live casino for the last 5 yrs and i've seen hands similar to the one described. i was playing 4/8 stud at commerce and a dealer accidentally misread a guys hand and mucked it but because others had seen it they gave it to him but i don't think that's the same as not calling a bet and tabling a hand. having it mucked and then taking your cards back. mucked cards are mucked cards. this is exactly the kind of thinking that i'm talking about when floormen make the wrong call.

As far as the casion's I 've played in, this is not the case. It is only true in touriments...

[murmar 0]

Almost the same thing happened at my table last night, except it was nl and it was on the turn. 3 spade flop, check check, player 1 bets the turn, player 2 goes all in, player one flips over his hand (straight) without touching his chips, three at the table heard him say call, the dealer thought he said muck, the pot was pushed to the player who showed one pair, the player said i said call, the initial ruling stood. It was ridiculous. The player kept his cool and didn't swear and get kicked out.

[pokerplayer24 0]

i think barry had a more than legitamite claim. if you show your hand to a player who still has chips then your hand should be dead. if your cards touch the much without the dealer declaring you as the winner then your hand should be dead. i've noticed lately that there have been a lot of sympathetic rullings by floormen often ruling for what feels 'right' when in fact it goes against the rules of poker.

I had a similar situation happen last time i was in a card room. When the pot went to showdown I flipped my hand and said flush but the dealer didn't realize this and grabbed my hand and placed it into the muck and was about to award the other player the pot. The floor got called by the other player and I was eventually awarded the pot. If your hand is shown it doesn't matter if the dealer mucks it, its already been shown.

[holdemchamp2 0]

barry has a right to be pi*sed but not to be a thief...im sure if it was anyone of us then we would be just as pi*sed and if you say im wrong then i guess u just dont care about winning or losing and money itself...that being said he needs to just pay it back and move on

[PokerDealer2005 0]

you can't show your hand to get a read on a player. youre not even supposed to tell him directly what you have. that is if he still you and he still have chips and he has not put you all in. i could be wrong but i've played probably 20hrs a week at a live casino for the last 5 yrs and i've seen hands similar to the one described. i was playing 4/8 stud at commerce and a dealer accidentally misread a guys hand and mucked it but because others had seen it they gave it to him but i don't think that's the same as not calling a bet and tabling a hand. having it mucked and then taking your cards back. mucked cards are mucked cards. this is exactly the kind of thinking that i'm talking about when floormen make the wrong call.

You don't play live. I deal for a living, and you can play with your cards face up if you want. Is it bad etiquette? Yes, but can you do it? Absolutely. If a player turns up his hands and a dealer accidently throws it in the muck, the floormen is called over, and the players will tell the floormen what cards they were and it is still a live hand. An accident is an accident.

[navybuttons 15]

i may be mistaken about being able to play your hand face up. in fact, i don't think there's a definative ruling on any of this. but the question still remains: how long is a players hand live? if it's not after it is mucked then when is it? if the hand is mucked and the pot pushed to another player? all-in-all i may have been presumptuous in earlier statements. if i was in a situation were a guy didn't call my bet tabled his hand, dealer put it in the muck, and i showed a bluff, and the guy said that he meant to call, and the floorman gave him the pot because he and other players said that he meant to call i would not be very happy (gross understatement). the more i think about it, the more i feel that defense of this kind of ruling is unwarranted. this sort of scenario could easily happen (n/l) where a guy makes a bet on the river, i say all-in, , and he immediately tables his hand wanting me to believe that he's calling and then if i have him beat he says "oh i thought he said call, i would have folded if he said all-in". if you don't agree with me, i think you are 50% right in doing so, but i think that we can all agree that there needs to be a definative rulebook so that this sort of situation does not occur.

[navybuttons 15]

to say that i don't play live is unwarranted. you can disagree with me and you may be right, but i'm not here to call anybody a liar. i don't feel i need to prove that i play live. wait... yes i do. i live in southern california. i used to play at pechanga of the 15 when i was 18-19 but then they built a new card room and it turned 21+. then i moved to morongo where the biggest spread was typically a 4-8 full kill. until i turned 21 and moved to long beach. for the last 2 years i've been played 3-6 to 5-10 at hawaiian gardens and at commerce. i know this is lame but personal attacks are more difficult for me to take than bad beats.