poker_tim 0 Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, but what is considered a good winning percentage if the flop is seen? I've just started keeping records of my play and I need a frame of reference.ThanksTim Link to post Share on other sites
poker_tim 0 Posted October 1, 2005 Author Share Posted October 1, 2005 bumpi really need help on this one Link to post Share on other sites
TheMathProf 0 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 bumpi really need help on this oneI don't track the exact statistic that you're looking at...But my total wins (includes hands that are won pre-flop) is equal to about 35.5% of my total flops seen.I have no idea if that's a good number, but I'm playing .25/.50 at 3.60 BB/100 over just under 100K hands.So if we presume my number is a good one, I would guess that it's probably somewhat over 30%. Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I'd be more interested in the stat thatshows how often you win moneyat showdown.It should be around 55% or so. (+ or - a few points)Any lower and you're taking too manyhands to the river.Any higher and you're folding somehands that are probably winners. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 bumpi really need help on this oneI don't track the exact statistic that you're looking at...But my total wins (includes hands that are won pre-flop) is equal to about 35.5% of my total flops seen.I have no idea if that's a good number, but I'm playing .25/.50 at 3.60 BB/100 over just under 100K hands.So if we presume my number is a good one, I would guess that it's probably somewhat over 30%.I do not mean to be insulting, but that is quite a low win rate at those limits. At that limit, you should be looking at at least 5bb/100 IMO. I recommend reading/re-reading SSHE and paying closer attention to position. You may already be doing those things, but if not, there are significant holes in your game. Consider them, and try to improve - you are probably missing out on some profitable opportunities.Good Luck,Daniel Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I don't think that 3.6 is a bad win rate at all, isn't 5 perfect play? Link to post Share on other sites
TheMathProf 0 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 [responding to my earlier message]I do not mean to be insulting, but that [3.60 BB/100 from omitted text] is quite a low win rate at those limits. At that limit, you should be looking at at least 5bb/100 IMO. I recommend reading/re-reading SSHE and paying closer attention to position. You may already be doing those things, but if not, there are significant holes in your game. Consider them, and try to improve - you are probably missing out on some profitable opportunities.Good Luck,DanielIt's interesting that you mention this. I've actually asked about this very topic a number of times.I have been told repeatedly by members of this forum that 3 BB/100 is the absolute maximum sustainable win rate and that all the rest is variance. This despite the fact that I've been hovering between 3.5-4 BB/100 for six months now. I'm not entirely sure I believed those statements, but this is really the first contrary claim I have seen. I can certainly assure you that the significant majority of players don't even win at that win rate (even at .25/.50 someone has to be a loser).I don't claim that there aren't significant holes in my game: I can tell you that I'm probably nowhere near as aggressive as most on this forum would recommend, and they're probably somewhat right. I'm less likely to open-raise than I probably should. I'm prone to tilting more than I should during a lengthy downswing.Just to name a few. Some of these may just be stylistic differences (I could never fathom playing a Gus Hansen style of poker). That being said, this is entirely just a hobby for me. A nice fun activity for me that happens to bring in a nice-sized check every once in awhile.So while I certainly don't mind looking to improve, it's also just something that I enjoy in my spare time. I have no aspirations of turning pro, or even being able to make a modest living at this game. I have no aspirations of picking up PokerTracker, even though folks swear it will improve my game. Part of me just seems to prefer relying on my own experience and observational skill.I mean, let's face it, I'm playing .25/.50. I also have few aspirations of moving up much beyond this level (although I'm thinking about making the move to .50/1 once I've accumulated bankroll).SSHE is a fantastic book. I think it's pointed out and solidified certain things in my game that I was certainly starting to internalize, but that I hadn't quite completely been able to verbalize yet. That being said, I also believe that there is no substitute for experience, and that means playing hands, and it also means inevitably making some mistakes. It's how I eventually got myself to becoming an expert-strength chess player, despite that also being just a hobby of mine.Daniel, I think if I were a stronger player, I might look at my results at .25/.50 and say, "Geez, I think I could do better than that."But frankly, I'm pretty satisfied with my results as they are for now, considering the relatively minor role that poker plays in my life. I know a lot of the folks here are absolutely obsessed.I'm just happy that I have something that I enjoy doing to whittle a way an hour or three here or there that I don't have to spend tons of money doing.PatrickP.S. I am done hijacking poker_tim's thread here, although maybe keeping the thread alive might help to get his question better answered. Link to post Share on other sites
onlymyBgame 0 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I have been told repeatedly by members of this forum that 3 BB/100 is the absolute maximum sustainable win rate and that all the rest is variance.that is incorrect and ignoring a very important variable: the size of the game and the strength of the other players.I'm sure there are people multi-tabling full table .5/1 limit who can do much better than 3bb/100. If you're talking about something like 5/10 or 10/20, 3bb/100 is a very impressive number and if you're talking about 30/60 or 50/100, it's impossible. regarding the original thread of the forum: that's not really an important number to focus on as long as your ptbb/100 is a number you like. in fact, in nl, that's pretty much the only stat that matter, but somewhere around 55-60% of showdowns is fine. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 great post - anyone who makes the effort to put as much thought, and reasonable, coherent thought at that, will surely be a winning long-term player.at most limits, 2-3 bb/100 is a great win rate, with upwards of 3 likely being variance.however at most sites, the .25/.5 game is such that a win rate closer to 5 i believe is sustainable. possibly many of the players who responded thought you might be playing higher limits.i am a veteran of those games, and the key is of course, tempered aggression. but if you have to be either overtemperate or overaggressive, i think the former is superior at those limits.i must compliment both your thinking and reasoning though - you are clearly playing poker for the right reasons, and i commend you for that.good luck,daniel Link to post Share on other sites
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