greensteins ranking

[hockeyeh 0]

see he put negreanu ahead of himself? Oh and dont you ****ing dare flaming me for the sloppiness of the post, i took the time to post it so dont be an ignorant prick plzGreensteins view from above, WAY above us mortals.player agg loose sh L NL Tours side game steaming weak opp good opp total Phil Ivey 8 8 9 8 7 9 8 7 8 8 80 Daniel Negreanu 7 7 8 8 8 9 7 7 8 7 76 Barry Greenstein 7 6 7 8 8 8 9 7 7 8 75 Ted Forrest 7 8 8 8 7 7 7 6 8 7 73 Stu Ungar 9 9 8 7 8 9 5 2 8 6 71 Chau Giang 7 7 7 8 7 7 8 4 7 8 70 John Juanda 7 7 7 7 7 9 6 5 8 7 70 Howard Lederer 7 5 7 8 8 8 6 7 8 6 70 Chip Reese 5 4 7 8 7 6 9 9 7 8 70 John Hennigan 7 7 8 8 5 7 7 5 8 7 69 Erik Seidel 7 6 7 6 8 8 6 7 7 7 69 Eli Elezra 8 8 8 7 5 6 7 5 7 7 68 Jennifer Harman-Traniello 7 6 7 8 6 8 7 6 7 6 68 Doyle Brunson 5 4 7 7 8 7 8 7 6 8 67 Gus Hansen 6 8 7 6 7 8 6 5 8 6 67 David Oppenheim 7 6 8 8 6 4 8 6 7 7 67 Todd Brunson 5 4 8 8 7 7 7 7 6 7 66 Johnny Chan 6 4 6 6 8 7 7 8 7 7 66 Sammy Farha 7 8 8 4 7 6 6 5 7 7 65 Dan Harrington 4 3 6 7 7 7 7 8 7 7 63 Mimi Tran 8 4 7 7 6 7 7 3 7 6 62 David Grey 4 3 6 7 6 6 7 8 7 6 60 Phil Hellmuth, Jr. 7 7 7 6 7 7 3 2 8 5 59 Lyle Berman 5 4 6 5 7 6 7 6 5 7 58 Bobby Baldwin 5 4 7 7 7 3 7 5 5 7 57 T.J. Cloutier 6 5 6 5 7 7 3 4 8 6 57 Annie Duke 6 3 6 7 4 6 6 6 7 5 56

[SuM827 0]

You could just link us, and looseness/aaggressiveness has nothing to do with his ratings of quality of play, so your totals are off.

[hockeyeh 0]

You could just link us, and looseness/aaggressiveness has nothing to do with his ratings of quality of play, so your totals are off.

duelly notedhttp://www.pocketfives.com/31103326-2555-4...2D22315653.aspx

[SuM827 0]

wow, I didn't notice this was from "the online poker authority". this is retarded. Barry isn't saying that Ivey is 10 points ahead of Chip Reese. the extra points come from aggressiveness/looseness, and a very tight player can be just as good as a very loose player, or better.

[Meatwad 0]

That post by decodez is exactly what I was about to post, that you'd have to make weighted categories because of the reasons previously pointed out.

[SuM827 0]

That post by decodez is exactly what I was about to post, that you'd have to make weighted categories because of the reasons previously pointed out.

what does decodez mean?

[Meatwad 0]

That post by decodez is exactly what I was about to post, that you'd have to make weighted categories because of the reasons previously pointed out.

what does decodez mean?

The poster in the p5 thread that copied/pasted something that I assume is from BG's site.

[SuM827 0]

ok, I didn't notice the posts underneath the rankings scale

[TheGame 0]

wow didnt realize that ungar had steaming porblems

[fuzznucket 0]

That post by decodez is exactly what I was about to post, that you'd have to make weighted categories because of the reasons previously pointed out.

Agreed. Although, I think that if Barry didn't think these ratings could be added together to rank the players overall skill, he would have clearly stated that before posting them for the public.Oh wait..."I don't think you can add up the ratings in the skill categories to get an accurate comparison of players. Some factors should be weighted more heavily than others. Also, some factors are correlated, e.g., Steam control and Side games"^Taken from the player analysis page of Greenstein's website.

[brian67 0]

Hansen got a 6 in aggression and looseness? Am i missing something, because i watch the guy play and that just seems ridiculous. Hellmuth a 7 in looseness? That also seems pretty questionable.

[CodyHartman 0]

That post by decodez is exactly what I was about to post, that you'd have to make weighted categories because of the reasons previously pointed out.

Agreed. Although, I think that if Barry didn't think these ratings could be added together to rank the players overall skill, he would have clearly stated that before posting them for the public.Oh wait..."I don't think you can add up the ratings in the skill categories to get an accurate comparison of players. Some factors should be weighted more heavily than others. Also, some factors are correlated, e.g., Steam control and Side games"^Taken from the player analysis page of Greenstein's website.

I am glad someone posted this, I was thinking of the same thing just as I was reading this thread that BG said something like you can't add em up or compare them by category. If you really think about it each player has their own style of play that works for them. BG just rated his thoughts on each player for each of the different categories. Co-D

[fuzznucket 0]

Hansen got a 6 in aggression and looseness? Am i missing something, because i watch the guy play and that just seems ridiculous.Hellmuth a 7 in looseness? That also seems pretty questionable.

Around 95 percent of the hands.

[brian67 0]

Hansen got a 6 in aggression and looseness? Am i missing something, because i watch the guy play and that just seems ridiculous.Hellmuth a 7 in looseness? That also seems pretty questionable.Around 95 percent of the hands.

Actually I watch him on Pstars, where he plays with extreme aggression. And also, in tourneys when you look at his huge stacks of chips, he has those mostly from stealing blinds and small pots.

[fuzznucket 0]

Hansen got a 6 in aggression and looseness? Am i missing something, because i watch the guy play and that just seems ridiculous.Hellmuth a 7 in looseness? That also seems pretty questionable.Around 95 percent of the hands.

Actually I watch him on Pstars, where he plays with extreme aggression. And also, in tourneys when you look at his huge stacks of chips, he has those mostly from stealing blinds and small pots.

I'm getting confused, are you saying that his aggressiveness and looseness ratings are too low?

[brian67 0]

IMO Hansen is looser and more aggressive, and Hellmuth is tighter.

[MilesZS 0]

IMO Hansen is looser and more aggressive, and Hellmuth is tighter.

Really? Have you played with him?Most of you have just seen them on TV. The TV hands. Also, chances are that (Full Tilt pros are a prime example) most of them don't play the same online as they play live. Chances are that Barry knows a whole lot more about every single pro on his list than any of us will ever know.

[CodyHartman 0]

IMO Hansen is looser and more aggressive, and Hellmuth is tighter.

Really? Have you played with him?Most of you have just seen them on TV. The TV hands. Chances are that Barry knows a whole lot more about every single pro on his list than any of us will ever know.

Here's my opinion, fot what it's worth...Via the TV image that I think the 2 players have; Gus plays more aggressive MORE often, BUT Phil still lie to play ALOT of hands. Most aces and Kings, as long as he raises it seems. Both are very aggressive when entering the pot. Gus likes to gamble, Phil tries to read every player and, sorta like DN, try and out play them preflop OR on after the flop. Both will be happy to raise with NADA, Gus just seems reckless on TV, I read that he likes that people think he is a "megalomanic," never knowing what he may be holding, and not afraid to gamble.Just an observation though (my .02 cents).

[SuM827 0]

Fans always get the wrong Idea based on the television coverage of poker players. If you saw all of the hands you'd see that Gus plays alot of pots, and will raise a fair amount preflop, but once someone comes over the top of him he'll be quick to get away from his hand, so his aggression is limited to pre-flop play, he's not quite passive on later streets, but he's not as aggressive as you think he is. Phil on the other hand. People have his game all wrong, they think that because he frequently criticises the hand selection of others, he always plays the top starting hands. This isn't true, AT ALL. I guarantee you if you watch Phil in the early stages of the WSOP tourneys this year, he plays about 54% of starting hands. He is actually very loose!!! BUT, like Gus, if raised, he'll dump the hand preflop, people think that because they've seen or heard of him making crazy laydowns (good and bad) that he is a tight player, again a big misconception.

[MilesZS 0]

IMO Hansen is looser and more aggressive, and Hellmuth is tighter.

Really? Have you played with him?Most of you have just seen them on TV. The TV hands. Also, chances are that (Full Tilt pros are a prime example) most of them don't play the same online as they play live. Chances are that Barry knows a whole lot more about every single pro on his list than any of us will ever know.

Bia the TV image that I think the 2 plaers have, so my opinion... Gus plays more aggressive MORE often, BUT Phil still lie to play ALOT of hands. Most aces and Kings, as long as he raises it seems. Both are very aggressive when entering the pot. Gus likes to gamble, Phil tries to read every player and, sorta like DN, try and out play them preflop OR on after the flop. Both will be happy to raise with NADA, Gus just seems reckless on TV, I read that he likes that people think he is a "megalomanic," never knowing what he may be holding, and not afraid to gamble.Just an observation though.

Like I said, that's great, but it's a skewed reality. You're only seeing tournament hands. You're only seeing the hands that matter to the WPT or to ESPN. You're only seeing the hands that create them most marketable image for the WPT/WSOP/Player. Barry has sat with many of them for hours during cash games, as well as in tourney mode. No matter what anyone thinks of Barry, his opinion is likely much more accurate than any of ours.Of course, you are nonetheless entitled to your opinion.

[brian67 0]

Mostly my opinion of Hansen is based off of watching him play online. Watching a guy 3 bet a 10-4 os gives me the impression that he is pretty aggressive. He plays so many hands that he can't be all that selective with them. And for the one thousandth time...I know that t.v. tourneys are edited. Still, my impression was that Hellmuth is pretty tight.

[hexag1 0]

Hansen got a 6 in aggression and looseness? Am i missing something, because i watch the guy play and that just seems ridiculous. Hellmuth a 7 in looseness? That also seems pretty questionable.

Yes you are missing something. Read the chart. Gus got an 8 in looseness... Gus Hansen 6| 8| 7 6 7 8 6 5 8 6 67 ^ | |

[hoosierAKs 0]

wow didnt realize that ungar had steaming porblems

[tavatara 0]

The looseness ratings are a little surprising. Using his numbers, basically the only player you could describe as tight-aggressive would be Mimi Tran. Duke and Chan would come next closest.If you take the average without counting play style, Ivey is still first with 8 ... next is Barry and Daniel, tied at 7.75 ... Hellmuth is last with 5.75

[jomatty 0]

phill hellmuth saying he plays tight and doing so are two very different things. hanson may be very aggressive in the relatively small stars game but barry apparently feels he is loose or active as he calls it but not especially aggressive like say ivey who he does consider agg. also i think the side games color barrys ratings much more than tournaments as he thinks thats where the real players are and none of us (unless chau giang is reading) have any idea how he plays in the biggest side games.matty